1 00:00:02,000 --> 00:00:07,000 Downloaded from YTS.BZ 2 00:00:08,000 --> 00:00:13,000 Official YIFY movies site: YTS.BZ 3 00:00:13,638 --> 00:00:15,766 - I've managed to find a marvelous song called 4 00:00:15,849 --> 00:00:19,102 "Society's Child", written, astonishingly enough, 5 00:00:19,185 --> 00:00:22,314 by a 15-year-old girl named Janis Ian. 6 00:00:23,524 --> 00:00:25,192 This tune is very well known 7 00:00:25,274 --> 00:00:27,527 among the followers of pop music, 8 00:00:27,611 --> 00:00:30,196 but you may not have heard it, since it's been withheld 9 00:00:30,280 --> 00:00:33,783 by most of the radio stations, for reasons unknown to me, 10 00:00:33,866 --> 00:00:37,161 although probably having to do with its subject matter, 11 00:00:37,246 --> 00:00:39,456 which is, as you'll see, somewhat controversial. 12 00:00:39,539 --> 00:00:42,584 Listen hard to "Society's Child". 13 00:00:42,667 --> 00:00:47,631 (Harpsichord intro to "Society's Child" plays) 14 00:01:00,686 --> 00:01:05,106 ♪ Come to my door, baby ♪ 15 00:01:05,189 --> 00:01:09,278 ♪ Face is clean and shining black as night ♪ 16 00:01:09,361 --> 00:01:11,864 ♪ My mother went to answer ♪ 17 00:01:11,947 --> 00:01:16,951 ♪ You know that you looked so fine ♪ 18 00:01:17,118 --> 00:01:22,123 ♪ Now I could understand your tears and your shame ♪ 19 00:01:22,665 --> 00:01:27,296 ♪ She called you boy, instead of your name ♪ 20 00:01:27,379 --> 00:01:31,716 ♪ When she wouldn't let you inside ♪ 21 00:01:31,799 --> 00:01:36,805 ♪ When she turned and said, but honey, he's not our kind ♪ 22 00:01:37,597 --> 00:01:40,558 (gentle piano music) 23 00:01:41,852 --> 00:01:43,896 - [Crew Member] This is Janis piano, take one. 24 00:01:43,978 --> 00:01:46,564 (tablet bleeps) 25 00:01:46,647 --> 00:01:48,191 - [Camera Operator] Got it. 26 00:01:48,275 --> 00:01:50,152 (piano music continues) 27 00:01:50,234 --> 00:01:53,739 (Janis breathes deeply) 28 00:01:53,822 --> 00:01:56,283 - [Janis] When I started out, I wanted to be a Beatle. 29 00:01:56,365 --> 00:01:57,659 I wanted to be really famous. 30 00:01:57,742 --> 00:02:00,370 I wanted to be the person that couldn't walk down the street 31 00:02:00,453 --> 00:02:03,956 'cause everybody would stop me and ask for my autograph. 32 00:02:04,040 --> 00:02:07,043 - [Interviewer] What do you consider yourself, Janis? 33 00:02:07,126 --> 00:02:08,711 - [Janis] Just a singer. 34 00:02:08,794 --> 00:02:10,046 - Singer? - Yeah. 35 00:02:10,129 --> 00:02:12,049 - [Interviewer] Of any particular notoriety? 36 00:02:12,132 --> 00:02:15,134 - [Janis] (chuckles) Infamously, yes. 37 00:02:15,218 --> 00:02:16,512 I mean, it's an unreal thing 38 00:02:16,594 --> 00:02:18,931 to have a hit record in the first place. 39 00:02:19,014 --> 00:02:20,973 And it's even more unreal to have a hit record 40 00:02:21,057 --> 00:02:23,977 where everybody runs around saying you're the new Bob Dylan, 41 00:02:24,061 --> 00:02:25,895 the new Messiah, yada yada. 42 00:02:25,979 --> 00:02:27,855 - [Leonard Bernstein] I congratulate you on what I'm sure 43 00:02:27,939 --> 00:02:29,399 is going to be a brilliant career. 44 00:02:29,483 --> 00:02:30,234 - Thank you. 45 00:02:30,317 --> 00:02:33,069 - Thank you so much for coming to see us. 46 00:02:35,405 --> 00:02:36,156 - [Janis] Forget about glory, because that fades. 47 00:02:36,240 --> 00:02:37,074 (applause) 48 00:02:38,032 --> 00:02:40,326 - [Janis] Being an artist, it's about service. 49 00:02:40,409 --> 00:02:42,454 It's about feeling like you are part 50 00:02:42,538 --> 00:02:44,747 of something bigger than yourself. 51 00:02:44,830 --> 00:02:46,707 Music is about telling stories. 52 00:02:46,792 --> 00:02:48,252 This is mine. 53 00:02:48,335 --> 00:02:49,336 (Janis chuckles) 54 00:02:53,507 --> 00:02:55,383 (chickens cluck) 55 00:02:55,467 --> 00:02:57,468 - [Janis] I grew up in New Jersey in Farmingdale. 56 00:02:57,552 --> 00:03:00,013 My dad and my mom ran a chicken farm. 57 00:03:00,097 --> 00:03:01,181 It was pretty isolated. 58 00:03:01,264 --> 00:03:03,975 The nearest neighbor was over a mile away. 59 00:03:04,058 --> 00:03:06,895 But there was always music in our house. 60 00:03:06,979 --> 00:03:09,480 (Piano playing: Debussy's "Clair De Lune") 61 00:03:09,564 --> 00:03:12,067 - [Janis] I think like many Jewish immigrant homes, 62 00:03:12,150 --> 00:03:13,776 that was a way of connecting. 63 00:03:13,860 --> 00:03:15,945 My father played the piano, and one day, 64 00:03:16,028 --> 00:03:17,489 when I was about two and a half, 65 00:03:17,573 --> 00:03:20,449 I realized that he was making those sounds. 66 00:03:20,533 --> 00:03:22,118 So, I went to him and I said, 67 00:03:22,201 --> 00:03:23,954 "I need to learn how to do that." 68 00:03:24,037 --> 00:03:26,497 And he laughed and said, Well, I'd have to be able 69 00:03:26,581 --> 00:03:29,209 to tell time and know the alphabet. 70 00:03:29,293 --> 00:03:31,627 So, I went into the kitchen and said to my mother, 71 00:03:31,711 --> 00:03:33,504 "I need to tell time and know the alphabet, 72 00:03:33,588 --> 00:03:35,841 and I need it as quickly as possible." 73 00:03:35,924 --> 00:03:37,633 The next day, I marched back to my father and said, 74 00:03:37,717 --> 00:03:40,052 "I can tell time, I know the alphabet. Teach me." 75 00:03:40,137 --> 00:03:42,306 And he started to teach me and (laughs) 76 00:03:42,389 --> 00:03:44,432 I think from the first, we argued. 77 00:03:44,515 --> 00:03:46,727 (upbeat piano duet: "Heart And Soul") 78 00:03:46,810 --> 00:03:48,645 - [Janis] My father ran an integrated 79 00:03:48,729 --> 00:03:49,854 chicken vaccination crew, 80 00:03:49,937 --> 00:03:51,856 which you would not think was a big deal, 81 00:03:51,939 --> 00:03:53,358 but it was a big deal. 82 00:03:53,442 --> 00:03:55,985 He also was active in the civil rights movement, 83 00:03:56,068 --> 00:03:58,697 and one day, my father went to a meeting of egg farmers 84 00:03:58,780 --> 00:04:00,282 about the price of eggs 85 00:04:00,365 --> 00:04:02,533 and he was picked up by the FBI on his way home. 86 00:04:02,617 --> 00:04:04,745 (engine revs) (siren wails) 87 00:04:04,828 --> 00:04:07,413 - [Celia] That was the era of McCarthyism. 88 00:04:07,497 --> 00:04:12,044 They were accusing people of always being communists. 89 00:04:12,127 --> 00:04:14,587 McCarthy tried to make himself a hero 90 00:04:14,670 --> 00:04:16,632 by taking other people down, 91 00:04:16,714 --> 00:04:21,345 and Janis's father got sort of caught up in that mess. 92 00:04:21,427 --> 00:04:24,555 - [Janis] Several times, the FBI showed up at our door 93 00:04:24,639 --> 00:04:28,017 and demanded entry, and my father asked for a warrant. 94 00:04:28,100 --> 00:04:31,855 They said they had none, and he slammed the door on them. 95 00:04:31,939 --> 00:04:34,524 My dad later became a music teacher, 96 00:04:34,608 --> 00:04:37,653 but he could never get tenure because the FBI would show up 97 00:04:37,735 --> 00:04:39,862 wherever we went and then inform the principal 98 00:04:39,947 --> 00:04:42,490 that he had consorted with known communists. 99 00:04:42,574 --> 00:04:45,701 - [Arlo Guthrie] When Janis and I were starting out, 100 00:04:45,786 --> 00:04:47,620 the world was different. 101 00:04:47,704 --> 00:04:50,958 I remember a time when, in the fourth grade, 102 00:04:51,040 --> 00:04:53,000 the teacher said, "Now, class, 103 00:04:53,084 --> 00:04:55,711 when you see the mushroom cloud, 104 00:04:55,795 --> 00:04:58,798 be sure to get under the desk immediately." 105 00:04:58,882 --> 00:05:02,386 - [Announcer] First, you duck, and then you cover, 106 00:05:02,468 --> 00:05:04,971 and very tightly, you cover the back of your neck. 107 00:05:05,055 --> 00:05:07,891 - [Guthrie] They had brought us to the brink, 108 00:05:07,975 --> 00:05:12,980 during the Cuban Missile Crisis, of nuclear catastrophe. 109 00:05:13,646 --> 00:05:15,148 The world that they had created 110 00:05:15,232 --> 00:05:16,774 didn't make any sense anymore. 111 00:05:16,858 --> 00:05:20,696 And the thought was, "Okay, we tried it their way. 112 00:05:20,778 --> 00:05:25,117 It didn't work. There must be something else to try." 113 00:05:25,199 --> 00:05:26,826 (Bob Dylan, "The Times They Are a-Changin'") 114 00:05:26,910 --> 00:05:28,786 ♪ If your time to you is worth saving ♪ 115 00:05:28,870 --> 00:05:30,288 ♪ Then you'd better start swimming ♪ 116 00:05:30,372 --> 00:05:31,999 ♪ Or you'll sink like a stone ♪ 117 00:05:32,081 --> 00:05:35,543 ♪ For the times, they are a-changing ♪ 118 00:05:35,627 --> 00:05:37,170 - [Guthrie] During the '60s, all 119 00:05:37,254 --> 00:05:39,088 the new artists who were arriving 120 00:05:39,173 --> 00:05:42,300 hoped that in some way they could establish an economy 121 00:05:42,384 --> 00:05:45,887 and a culture and a country and a justice system 122 00:05:45,971 --> 00:05:49,391 that was more equitable, more fair. 123 00:05:49,473 --> 00:05:54,312 And Janis and I and others came up, at that time, as kids. 124 00:05:55,480 --> 00:05:57,315 (audience cheers and applauds) 125 00:05:57,399 --> 00:05:58,692 (radio interference) 126 00:05:58,774 --> 00:06:01,278 - [Radio Host] It gives me a lot more than the- 127 00:06:01,360 --> 00:06:03,112 - [Janis] In those days, when you only had 128 00:06:03,197 --> 00:06:04,697 half a dozen radio channels, 129 00:06:04,781 --> 00:06:07,742 there was one folk radio show in Newark, New Jersey, 130 00:06:07,826 --> 00:06:09,577 once a week, for an hour. 131 00:06:09,661 --> 00:06:12,997 I would crawl under the covers and hide and listen to it, 132 00:06:13,081 --> 00:06:14,833 and that's how I heard Phil Ochs, 133 00:06:14,916 --> 00:06:16,668 Tom Paxton, Buffy Sainte-Marie, 134 00:06:16,752 --> 00:06:19,713 all of these people that I later became friends with. 135 00:06:19,795 --> 00:06:21,130 (water splashes) 136 00:06:21,214 --> 00:06:24,300 (Odetta sings on radio) ♪ Tall as a mountain ♪ 137 00:06:25,552 --> 00:06:29,973 - [Janis] I was in the shower and I heard this voice. 138 00:06:31,975 --> 00:06:35,812 I had grown up on jazz and classical music and folk music, 139 00:06:35,896 --> 00:06:39,065 but I'd never heard a voice like this. 140 00:06:40,024 --> 00:06:41,817 I went racing out of the shower 141 00:06:41,901 --> 00:06:43,528 with a towel draped around me, yelling, 142 00:06:43,612 --> 00:06:45,322 "Who is that, who is that, who is that?" 143 00:06:45,404 --> 00:06:48,074 And my mother was watching Harry Belafonte's show 144 00:06:48,158 --> 00:06:50,076 and Odetta was singing. 145 00:06:51,577 --> 00:06:53,663 And that changed my life. 146 00:06:54,997 --> 00:06:56,791 In the same year I discovered Odetta, 147 00:06:56,875 --> 00:07:01,547 I picked up my dad's guitar and decided I wanted to play. 148 00:07:01,629 --> 00:07:02,380 I was in camp, Camp Woodland, at the time. 149 00:07:02,463 --> 00:07:03,298 (Pete Seeger) ♪ What did you see, my darlin' young one ♪ 150 00:07:07,970 --> 00:07:09,512 - [Janis] (chuckles) My friend, Janey, calls them 151 00:07:09,596 --> 00:07:11,389 "The Commie Pinko Red Diaper Baby Camps", 152 00:07:11,473 --> 00:07:14,392 but they weren't, really, they were more peace and love, 153 00:07:14,475 --> 00:07:16,060 Woodstock camps. 154 00:07:16,144 --> 00:07:19,230 - [Janey Street] I met Janis when we were like 12 years old, 155 00:07:19,314 --> 00:07:20,399 at summer camp. 156 00:07:20,482 --> 00:07:22,776 It was very progressive, you know, it's integrated, 157 00:07:22,860 --> 00:07:24,735 and you learn folk songs. 158 00:07:24,819 --> 00:07:28,740 I had a blues band (chuckles) and Janis was writing songs. 159 00:07:28,824 --> 00:07:31,660 And we were the only two girls that we knew, 160 00:07:31,742 --> 00:07:33,077 this was in the '60s, 161 00:07:33,161 --> 00:07:36,081 the only two girls that we knew that played guitar and sang. 162 00:07:36,163 --> 00:07:38,375 - [Janis] I stole my dad's Leadbelly songbook, 163 00:07:38,458 --> 00:07:40,084 I learned the chords from that. 164 00:07:40,168 --> 00:07:42,713 Then I started imitating Odetta, which was terrible. 165 00:07:42,795 --> 00:07:44,173 And then I started imitating Joan Baez, 166 00:07:44,255 --> 00:07:45,757 which was even worse. 167 00:07:45,841 --> 00:07:48,802 And then eventually, I started trying to become myself. 168 00:07:48,886 --> 00:07:50,596 - [Street] She was already writing stuff 169 00:07:50,678 --> 00:07:52,346 like "Hair of Spun Gold." 170 00:07:52,430 --> 00:07:54,557 I remember that was one real early one. 171 00:07:54,641 --> 00:07:58,896 - [Janis] ♪ When I was just the age of five ♪ 172 00:07:58,978 --> 00:08:02,399 ♪ My world had just come alive ♪ 173 00:08:02,482 --> 00:08:04,483 - [Janis] I was listening to a fair amount 174 00:08:04,567 --> 00:08:05,735 of old English ballads, 175 00:08:05,819 --> 00:08:07,946 because that's what I was learning at camp 176 00:08:08,029 --> 00:08:10,240 and I found this way to play an A minor chord, 177 00:08:10,324 --> 00:08:12,408 way high up on the neck of the guitar, 178 00:08:12,492 --> 00:08:13,951 and the song just started to come. 179 00:08:14,036 --> 00:08:17,706 ♪ With hair of spun gold ♪ 180 00:08:17,788 --> 00:08:22,793 ♪ Lips of ruby red ♪ 181 00:08:23,377 --> 00:08:27,882 ♪ And eyes as deep as the deepest sea ♪ 182 00:08:27,966 --> 00:08:29,634 - [Janis] I wrote out the lead sheet, 183 00:08:29,718 --> 00:08:31,720 with the vocal line and the chords 184 00:08:31,802 --> 00:08:34,181 and I sent it into Broadside Magazine, 185 00:08:34,264 --> 00:08:37,518 and then Broadside Magazine decided to publish it, 186 00:08:37,600 --> 00:08:39,644 not knowing how old I was. 187 00:08:39,727 --> 00:08:41,730 It was a very big deal to be in Broadside. 188 00:08:41,812 --> 00:08:43,941 They were the first ones to publish Dylan, 189 00:08:44,024 --> 00:08:45,525 first ones to publish Phil Ochs, 190 00:08:45,609 --> 00:08:47,485 first ones, for what it's worth, to publish me. 191 00:08:47,568 --> 00:08:48,611 (phone rings) 192 00:08:48,695 --> 00:08:51,197 They called the house, and they talked to my father. 193 00:08:51,280 --> 00:08:53,075 They said, "Well, we would like her to come 194 00:08:53,158 --> 00:08:55,826 and perform at the Village Gate at a hootenanny." 195 00:08:55,910 --> 00:08:57,955 And my father sputtered, from what I understand, 196 00:08:58,038 --> 00:09:00,874 and he said, "Do you know that she's only 13?" 197 00:09:00,957 --> 00:09:03,918 And Sis Cunningham from Broadside said, "Well, that's okay. 198 00:09:04,001 --> 00:09:05,294 Then can you drive her?" 199 00:09:05,379 --> 00:09:07,505 (car door slams) 200 00:09:07,589 --> 00:09:11,092 - [Tom Paxton] We had a hootenanny once a month 201 00:09:11,176 --> 00:09:13,720 on a Sunday afternoon at the Village Gate. 202 00:09:13,803 --> 00:09:18,015 The Village Gate was the biggest venue in the village. 203 00:09:18,100 --> 00:09:20,018 - [Janis] I got there and saw all these people 204 00:09:20,101 --> 00:09:23,230 that I'd only heard on the radio or seen on album jackets. 205 00:09:23,312 --> 00:09:26,732 People like Phil Ochs, Eric Anderson, Tom Paxton. 206 00:09:26,817 --> 00:09:28,360 This was my first chance to sing 207 00:09:28,442 --> 00:09:30,571 in front of the paying audience. 208 00:09:30,653 --> 00:09:32,029 - [Paxton] We didn't know who she was. 209 00:09:32,114 --> 00:09:34,198 She was this little kid from New Jersey 210 00:09:34,283 --> 00:09:36,618 and her guitar was as big as she was. 211 00:09:36,701 --> 00:09:38,745 (audience cheers and applauds) 212 00:09:38,828 --> 00:09:41,999 (gentle acoustic guitar music) 213 00:09:42,081 --> 00:09:44,250 - [Janis] Hey, come on. I'm getting hung up on this chord. 214 00:09:44,333 --> 00:09:46,294 (waitress laughs) 215 00:09:46,378 --> 00:09:48,797 - [Paxton] She got up and she sang a song 216 00:09:48,880 --> 00:09:51,174 that was so full of sass 217 00:09:51,258 --> 00:09:54,595 that Len and I were banging on the chair saying, 218 00:09:54,677 --> 00:09:55,511 "Great, great." 219 00:09:55,596 --> 00:09:57,054 - [Janis] I sang my song and then I turned around 220 00:09:57,139 --> 00:09:59,474 and went back to my seat 'cause I was very worried about 221 00:09:59,557 --> 00:10:02,727 using up too much time, I had been warned about that. 222 00:10:02,811 --> 00:10:04,855 People kept applauding and Paxton said, 223 00:10:04,937 --> 00:10:07,231 "Get back up there, kid! Go on, you idiot!" 224 00:10:07,316 --> 00:10:10,027 - [Paxton] In the hootenannies, you didn't do an encore. 225 00:10:10,110 --> 00:10:12,028 But we made her get up and go sing another song, 226 00:10:12,111 --> 00:10:13,404 'cause we loved her. 227 00:10:13,488 --> 00:10:14,990 She was one of us. 228 00:10:16,283 --> 00:10:17,658 Still is. 229 00:10:17,743 --> 00:10:20,578 - [Janis] After the show, my mom went to my grandparents 230 00:10:20,662 --> 00:10:23,664 and asked them to loan my parents the money to buy me 231 00:10:23,749 --> 00:10:26,960 my first own guitar 'cause I'd always played my dad's. 232 00:10:27,043 --> 00:10:29,337 And I got that for my 13th birthday. 233 00:10:29,421 --> 00:10:31,215 And that was just huge. 234 00:10:31,298 --> 00:10:33,759 I mean, I suddenly had a way out. 235 00:10:33,841 --> 00:10:36,177 I wanted into the big city. 236 00:10:36,260 --> 00:10:38,639 I wanted to go to New York and make my fortune. 237 00:10:38,721 --> 00:10:40,307 So, when we moved to New York, 238 00:10:40,389 --> 00:10:41,600 I took it for all it was worth. 239 00:10:41,682 --> 00:10:43,309 (Janis Ian, "Month of May") 240 00:10:43,393 --> 00:10:45,354 ♪ Lazy with the sun ♪ 241 00:10:45,437 --> 00:10:47,397 ♪ Crazy with love ♪ 242 00:10:47,480 --> 00:10:49,942 We moved when I was 14 and I remember the first night 243 00:10:50,024 --> 00:10:52,110 I walked up to Broadway, a block away, 244 00:10:52,193 --> 00:10:54,613 and I sat on an orange crate and I felt this rumbling 245 00:10:54,696 --> 00:10:58,241 under my feet and I realized the trains ran all night long. 246 00:10:58,325 --> 00:10:59,659 Janey and I would take the subway, 247 00:10:59,743 --> 00:11:01,662 we'd go down to the village on the weekends. 248 00:11:01,745 --> 00:11:05,541 You could go from seeing B.B. King at the Au Go-Go, 249 00:11:05,624 --> 00:11:08,293 to Bob Dylan hanging out at the Kettle of Fish, 250 00:11:08,376 --> 00:11:09,919 to the Gaslight and Reverend Gary Davis. 251 00:11:10,003 --> 00:11:11,547 You could do all of that in one night. 252 00:11:11,629 --> 00:11:13,631 And if you were an artist, you got to get in free. 253 00:11:13,715 --> 00:11:17,427 So, you got an education in all of these different genres. 254 00:11:17,510 --> 00:11:20,847 - [Guthrie] There was a short period of time 255 00:11:20,931 --> 00:11:24,518 where it seemed as though we were all influencing 256 00:11:24,600 --> 00:11:27,187 and playing off of each other and learning from each other 257 00:11:27,270 --> 00:11:29,480 and sharing with each other and having fun 258 00:11:29,565 --> 00:11:33,360 and goofing off and getting in trouble together. 259 00:11:33,442 --> 00:11:35,153 It was a wonderful time. 260 00:11:35,236 --> 00:11:36,529 (acoustic guitar) 261 00:11:36,613 --> 00:11:37,364 (Gary Davis, "12 Gates to the City") 262 00:11:37,447 --> 00:11:41,033 ♪ Oh, what a beautiful city ♪ 263 00:11:41,118 --> 00:11:43,077 - [Anthony DeCurtis] In Greenwich Village, 264 00:11:43,160 --> 00:11:45,288 there was a very active club scene. 265 00:11:45,371 --> 00:11:47,624 This kind of folk revival, I suppose, 266 00:11:47,707 --> 00:11:49,168 is what people were calling it. 267 00:11:49,250 --> 00:11:52,296 Janis was a part of that world. 268 00:11:52,379 --> 00:11:55,340 ♪ 12 gates to the city ♪ 269 00:11:55,423 --> 00:11:58,759 - [Janis] I got to open for the Reverend Gary Davis. 270 00:11:58,844 --> 00:12:01,513 Gary's wife, Miss Annie, she liked me a lot, 271 00:12:01,596 --> 00:12:03,890 so she told Gary he ought to teach me. 272 00:12:03,974 --> 00:12:07,101 Gary took me under his wing, and he took me to the Gaslight 273 00:12:07,186 --> 00:12:09,229 and he wanted me to open for him. 274 00:12:09,312 --> 00:12:10,938 You can imagine this audience of people 275 00:12:11,023 --> 00:12:13,274 coming to hear an old blind black blues singer 276 00:12:13,357 --> 00:12:15,110 and here's this 13-and-a-half, 277 00:12:15,193 --> 00:12:17,738 or 14-year-old white girl from New Jersey. 278 00:12:17,821 --> 00:12:20,157 (laughs) They must've been appalled. 279 00:12:20,240 --> 00:12:21,991 (Janis Ian, "Lonely One"] 280 00:12:22,075 --> 00:12:26,538 ♪ You make me feel I'm the only one ♪ 281 00:12:26,621 --> 00:12:30,792 ♪ To know that you're not real ♪ 282 00:12:30,875 --> 00:12:35,254 ♪ Lonely one ♪ 283 00:12:35,339 --> 00:12:39,509 ♪ Turned down thumbs on the world ♪ 284 00:12:44,264 --> 00:12:46,517 (audience cheers and applauds) 285 00:12:46,600 --> 00:12:48,851 - [Joan Baez] To be acknowledged by Broadside 286 00:12:48,936 --> 00:12:51,312 and then go to the Gaslight, I mean, it's sort of 287 00:12:51,395 --> 00:12:53,899 what one did on the road to being discovered 288 00:12:53,981 --> 00:12:55,399 and appreciated. 289 00:12:55,484 --> 00:12:58,445 - [Janis] After my show, this guy came running backstage, 290 00:12:58,528 --> 00:13:00,322 Jacob Solomon, and he started yelling, 291 00:13:00,404 --> 00:13:02,533 "Kid, I'm gonna make you a star!" 292 00:13:02,615 --> 00:13:05,451 And I said, "You and what army?" 293 00:13:05,535 --> 00:13:06,787 And he said, "No, no, no, no, no." 294 00:13:06,870 --> 00:13:08,621 And he pulled out a business card and he said, 295 00:13:08,705 --> 00:13:10,831 "Meet me tomorrow at this address", 296 00:13:10,916 --> 00:13:14,794 which turned out to be Shadow's office in Columbus Circle. 297 00:13:14,878 --> 00:13:16,839 - [DeCurtis] Shadow Morton was not necessarily 298 00:13:16,922 --> 00:13:20,008 the likeliest producer for folk songs. 299 00:13:20,091 --> 00:13:21,969 Shadow Morton produced the Shangri-Las. 300 00:13:22,052 --> 00:13:25,096 ♪ They say he came from the wrong side of town ♪ 301 00:13:25,179 --> 00:13:26,514 ♪ What you mean when you say that he came ♪ 302 00:13:26,597 --> 00:13:28,015 ♪ From the wrong side of town ♪ 303 00:13:28,100 --> 00:13:29,559 - [DeCurtis] He was into drama. 304 00:13:29,643 --> 00:13:31,352 - [Artie Butler] Shadow was a good name for him. 305 00:13:31,436 --> 00:13:33,062 He used to wear a cloak. 306 00:13:33,145 --> 00:13:34,856 If he just stood next to the coat rack, 307 00:13:34,940 --> 00:13:36,524 we didn't know he was in the office. 308 00:13:36,607 --> 00:13:38,067 - [Brooks Arthur] He would disappear. 309 00:13:38,150 --> 00:13:40,988 - [Artie] He would just disappear. He'd become vapor. 310 00:13:41,071 --> 00:13:43,030 - [Janis] He had his cowboy boots on the table 311 00:13:43,115 --> 00:13:45,325 and he had the New York Times propped up in front of him, 312 00:13:45,408 --> 00:13:47,827 and he was smoking a cigarette with his fedora. 313 00:13:47,910 --> 00:13:50,246 So, I started to sing, and he kept the newspaper up. 314 00:13:50,330 --> 00:13:52,416 (Janis Ian, "Month of May.") 315 00:13:52,499 --> 00:13:56,336 ♪ sometimes get lonely ♪ 316 00:13:56,419 --> 00:13:59,339 ♪ when you turn out the light ♪ 317 00:13:59,423 --> 00:14:01,008 - [Janis] And I thought, "That's incredibly rude. 318 00:14:01,091 --> 00:14:02,592 Here I am, pouring my heart out, 319 00:14:02,676 --> 00:14:06,846 trying very hard to be good, and here's this guy reading." ♪ In the month of May." ♪ 320 00:14:06,929 --> 00:14:08,890 So, at the end of the second or third song, 321 00:14:08,974 --> 00:14:11,518 I put my guitar away and closed up the case 322 00:14:11,601 --> 00:14:13,352 and then I pulled out my cigarette lighter 323 00:14:13,437 --> 00:14:15,688 and I set fire to his newspaper, 324 00:14:15,772 --> 00:14:18,107 then I went to the elevator. 325 00:14:20,735 --> 00:14:22,486 Shadow had managed to put out the fire 326 00:14:22,571 --> 00:14:24,489 and stuck his boot in the elevator and said, 327 00:14:24,572 --> 00:14:25,823 "Wait, wait, wait!" 328 00:14:25,908 --> 00:14:28,201 I don't think he'd realized how young I was. 329 00:14:28,284 --> 00:14:30,828 He apologized and he asked me to come back and sing, 330 00:14:30,913 --> 00:14:32,496 and I said, "Why should I?" 331 00:14:32,581 --> 00:14:34,416 And he was just really adorable about it. 332 00:14:34,499 --> 00:14:36,210 So, I went back and I sang. 333 00:14:36,293 --> 00:14:37,919 I probably sang him the six songs, 334 00:14:38,003 --> 00:14:39,962 or 12 songs I had written to date. 335 00:14:40,047 --> 00:14:42,924 He said, "That one," when he heard "Society's Child". 336 00:14:43,008 --> 00:14:44,634 And I said, "Okay, what?" 337 00:14:44,717 --> 00:14:46,552 And he said, "We'll go into the studio." 338 00:14:46,636 --> 00:14:47,721 I said, "Okay." 339 00:14:47,803 --> 00:14:51,307 He asked if I needed anything for this session in the studio 340 00:14:51,390 --> 00:14:53,684 and I thought really fast that I would never get a chance 341 00:14:53,769 --> 00:14:57,063 to play a harpsichord or a 12-string, so I asked for both. 342 00:14:57,147 --> 00:14:59,191 And he asked why I needed the harpsichord, 343 00:14:59,274 --> 00:15:01,360 and I said, "For the introduction." 344 00:15:01,442 --> 00:15:03,153 And he said, "Okay." 345 00:15:03,236 --> 00:15:05,489 And then I had to go home and write the introduction. 346 00:15:05,572 --> 00:15:08,075 - [Herb Jordan] "Society's Child" is a great song. 347 00:15:08,158 --> 00:15:10,244 You have this young girl, 348 00:15:11,285 --> 00:15:12,453 with a guitar, 349 00:15:13,330 --> 00:15:17,583 taking on the beast, interracial relationships. 350 00:15:17,668 --> 00:15:20,796 (bus engine hums) 351 00:15:20,879 --> 00:15:22,089 - [Janis] I was sitting on a bus 352 00:15:22,172 --> 00:15:24,091 in East Orange, New Jersey. 353 00:15:24,173 --> 00:15:27,845 I was 14 and I was one of, I think, four, maybe five 354 00:15:27,927 --> 00:15:32,099 Caucasian kids in an all-Black school and neighborhood. 355 00:15:32,182 --> 00:15:35,059 A very middle class, very upwardly mobile neighborhood. 356 00:15:35,143 --> 00:15:38,187 But still, I was definitely the outsider. 357 00:15:38,272 --> 00:15:40,606 I was on the bus, watching a young couple. 358 00:15:40,691 --> 00:15:43,485 He was black and she was white and they were young 359 00:15:43,568 --> 00:15:46,738 and they were holding hands and they were just oblivious 360 00:15:46,822 --> 00:15:48,447 to the way people were glaring at them. 361 00:15:48,532 --> 00:15:51,826 Not just white people. I mean, everyone was glaring at them. 362 00:15:51,909 --> 00:15:55,121 And I started thinking about how hard that was going to be 363 00:15:55,205 --> 00:15:57,456 and wondering whether their parents even knew 364 00:15:57,541 --> 00:16:00,335 that they were dating, and if their parents didn't know, 365 00:16:00,418 --> 00:16:03,254 whether anybody on the bus was going to tell on them. 366 00:16:03,337 --> 00:16:04,548 I wondered whether the girl 367 00:16:04,630 --> 00:16:06,508 would be able to take the pressure. 368 00:16:06,591 --> 00:16:09,260 And in the end, I thought she probably wouldn't. 369 00:16:09,344 --> 00:16:11,513 (moody harpsichord music) 370 00:16:11,596 --> 00:16:14,099 - [Artie] I mean, that first session when she walked in, 371 00:16:14,182 --> 00:16:16,143 and I'm looking at this little girl. 372 00:16:16,225 --> 00:16:18,019 I mean, honestly, I can say little... 373 00:16:18,102 --> 00:16:20,147 She was the size of a hood ornament on a Chevy. 374 00:16:20,230 --> 00:16:21,355 (Brooks laughs) 375 00:16:21,440 --> 00:16:24,109 I mean, she was a tiny little girl. 376 00:16:24,192 --> 00:16:25,402 To think "Society's Child" 377 00:16:25,485 --> 00:16:27,486 came out of a young girl like that. 378 00:16:27,571 --> 00:16:28,322 - [Brooks] 14, 15 years old. 379 00:16:28,404 --> 00:16:29,114 - [Artie] Wow. 380 00:16:29,197 --> 00:16:30,365 She'd never been to 381 00:16:30,448 --> 00:16:32,658 a recording studio before. 382 00:16:32,743 --> 00:16:36,163 And she brought me a piece of paper, 383 00:16:36,245 --> 00:16:37,956 eight and a half by eleven, 384 00:16:38,039 --> 00:16:40,625 with her lyrics, with the chord changes, 385 00:16:40,708 --> 00:16:42,126 written right above them. 386 00:16:42,211 --> 00:16:46,965 And she thought that was sufficient to pass out to the band. 387 00:16:47,048 --> 00:16:49,759 - [Janis] I didn't know how to talk to musicians, 388 00:16:49,842 --> 00:16:52,136 'cause I only knew how to talk to folk players, 389 00:16:52,221 --> 00:16:54,014 and that was a whole other world. 390 00:16:54,096 --> 00:16:56,182 I just thought that everybody was going to learn it, 391 00:16:56,265 --> 00:16:57,558 like we did in camp. 392 00:16:57,643 --> 00:17:00,229 And then we started playing and it was just horrible 393 00:17:00,312 --> 00:17:02,063 and my stomach was starting to hurt, 394 00:17:02,147 --> 00:17:03,606 and I didn't know what to do. 395 00:17:03,690 --> 00:17:06,359 And Shadow, who had left me alone in the studio 396 00:17:06,442 --> 00:17:08,903 with these musicians, came in and asked what was wrong, 397 00:17:08,987 --> 00:17:11,906 and I told him that it sounded horrible. 398 00:17:11,990 --> 00:17:14,660 And God bless him, George Duvivier came over, 399 00:17:14,742 --> 00:17:17,203 and he called the band together and he said, 400 00:17:17,287 --> 00:17:19,830 "Gentlemen, just listen to the song once. 401 00:17:19,914 --> 00:17:22,000 Listen to the words." 402 00:17:22,084 --> 00:17:25,962 ♪ Walk me down to school, baby ♪ 403 00:17:26,046 --> 00:17:29,715 ♪ Everybody's acting deaf and blind ♪ 404 00:17:29,799 --> 00:17:31,300 ♪ Until they turn and say ♪ 405 00:17:31,384 --> 00:17:36,390 ♪ Why don't you stick to your own kind ♪ 406 00:17:36,890 --> 00:17:41,478 ♪ My teachers all laugh, their smirking stares ♪ 407 00:17:41,561 --> 00:17:45,982 ♪ Cutting deep down in our affairs ♪ 408 00:17:46,066 --> 00:17:50,988 ♪ Preachers of equality think they believe it ♪ 409 00:17:51,070 --> 00:17:56,034 ♪ Why won't they just let us be ♪ 410 00:17:57,286 --> 00:17:59,413 - [Artie] When she sang the song for us, 411 00:17:59,496 --> 00:18:02,749 we had to recuperate for a few minutes. 412 00:18:03,916 --> 00:18:06,795 Out of her fingers, out of her mouth. 413 00:18:06,878 --> 00:18:08,922 She was connected. 414 00:18:09,006 --> 00:18:10,757 She was a poet. 415 00:18:10,840 --> 00:18:12,718 She was an actor when she sang too, 416 00:18:12,800 --> 00:18:17,388 because she got inside the lyric and you felt the pain. 417 00:18:18,472 --> 00:18:21,101 ♪ One of these days I'm gonna raise ♪ 418 00:18:21,184 --> 00:18:24,395 ♪ My glistening wings and fly ♪ 419 00:18:25,230 --> 00:18:28,525 - [Brooks] Being in the control room when that moment was 420 00:18:28,608 --> 00:18:29,651 happening, man, 421 00:18:29,734 --> 00:18:32,445 I felt like it was a privilege to be behind the board 422 00:18:32,528 --> 00:18:34,698 handling all the sounds and all the instruments, you know? 423 00:18:34,780 --> 00:18:36,700 - [Artie] We learned a lot from this little girl. 424 00:18:36,782 --> 00:18:39,286 - [Janis] They listened and then they talked to each other, 425 00:18:39,368 --> 00:18:41,038 and they worked out an arrangement, 426 00:18:41,121 --> 00:18:43,915 and Artie Butler ran back and forth from the harpsichord 427 00:18:43,999 --> 00:18:45,959 to the organ, playing my intro. 428 00:18:46,042 --> 00:18:48,336 - [Artie] I sat on one of those chairs with three wheels, 429 00:18:48,420 --> 00:18:50,297 you know, like a secretary sits on? 430 00:18:50,380 --> 00:18:51,714 - [Brooks] Yeah, yeah. 431 00:18:51,798 --> 00:18:55,219 - [Artie] And we greased the wheels so they didn't squeak. 432 00:18:55,301 --> 00:18:58,721 I should've gotten paid mileage. I would've made more money. 433 00:18:58,805 --> 00:19:02,351 (lively organ music) 434 00:19:02,433 --> 00:19:04,853 - [Janis] Artie played that amazing rip 435 00:19:04,936 --> 00:19:06,355 at the end on the organ, 436 00:19:06,438 --> 00:19:08,981 as a kind of counterpunch to the lyric, 437 00:19:09,066 --> 00:19:10,983 and it was perfect the first take. 438 00:19:11,067 --> 00:19:13,862 - [Artie] She made a record that is true art. 439 00:19:13,945 --> 00:19:15,571 It's foresight. 440 00:19:15,655 --> 00:19:18,659 It's foresight about what the world should be like. 441 00:19:18,741 --> 00:19:20,786 - [Janis] After this session in the studio, 442 00:19:20,868 --> 00:19:23,913 Shadow took me outside and he said, 443 00:19:23,997 --> 00:19:27,542 "You don't have to do this, but if you change this one line, 444 00:19:27,625 --> 00:19:31,212 'Shining black as night' to any other line, 445 00:19:31,296 --> 00:19:32,588 you can change it to whatever you want, 446 00:19:32,673 --> 00:19:34,590 'Shining like the moon', 'Shining like a fight', 447 00:19:34,674 --> 00:19:36,718 whatever you want, just not 'Black'. 448 00:19:36,801 --> 00:19:37,635 If you change that line, 449 00:19:37,719 --> 00:19:40,681 I will guarantee you a number one record." 450 00:19:40,763 --> 00:19:43,851 Folk music has a tradition of standing up. 451 00:19:43,933 --> 00:19:46,103 You stand up and you make your beliefs known 452 00:19:46,185 --> 00:19:47,938 and that's how I was raised 453 00:19:48,020 --> 00:19:49,605 and that's the people I was raised among. 454 00:19:49,690 --> 00:19:51,567 Those were the people I admired. 455 00:19:51,650 --> 00:19:53,192 So, I said, "No." 456 00:19:53,277 --> 00:19:55,570 - [Joan Baez] For me and for Janis, you took the things 457 00:19:55,653 --> 00:19:57,865 that you really believed in and cared about 458 00:19:57,948 --> 00:19:59,991 and you stuck to that and you wrote the songs, 459 00:20:00,075 --> 00:20:02,076 you sang the songs around that. 460 00:20:02,160 --> 00:20:05,830 She wasn't gonna change words for somebody else. 461 00:20:05,913 --> 00:20:07,374 - [Janis] I got to make a record. 462 00:20:07,457 --> 00:20:09,917 I got to hold my head up in front of people like Odetta 463 00:20:10,001 --> 00:20:12,753 and Dave Van Ronk that I admired so enormously, 464 00:20:12,837 --> 00:20:14,839 and I was going to get to make an album. 465 00:20:14,923 --> 00:20:16,758 That was the big deal. 466 00:20:18,384 --> 00:20:20,179 - [Jordan] She took on forces that she probably 467 00:20:20,261 --> 00:20:22,890 didn't even understand. 468 00:20:22,972 --> 00:20:27,519 And that's one of the great things about being young. 469 00:20:27,685 --> 00:20:31,981 Maybe it's only a child who could sing a song like this. 470 00:20:32,065 --> 00:20:34,902 Only a child is fearless enough 471 00:20:34,984 --> 00:20:37,863 to take on something so dark. 472 00:20:37,945 --> 00:20:40,531 The right to love who you choose, to me, 473 00:20:40,615 --> 00:20:43,076 is like the most fundamental right there is. 474 00:20:43,160 --> 00:20:46,829 (gentle piano music) 475 00:20:46,913 --> 00:20:48,664 - [Janis] More than half my first album budget 476 00:20:48,749 --> 00:20:50,959 went on "Society's Child". 477 00:20:51,042 --> 00:20:53,545 The goal was to get on the radio and have a hit, 478 00:20:53,628 --> 00:20:55,923 but when Shadow brought the finished record 479 00:20:56,006 --> 00:20:58,759 to Atlantic Records, who had paid for it, 480 00:20:58,842 --> 00:21:00,719 they said they couldn't release it, 481 00:21:00,801 --> 00:21:03,638 and gave Shadow the master and said, "Good luck." 482 00:21:03,721 --> 00:21:05,015 - [Greg Caz] It was in the middle 483 00:21:05,097 --> 00:21:06,432 of the civil rights movement, 484 00:21:06,517 --> 00:21:08,769 just literally a handful of years 485 00:21:08,852 --> 00:21:12,980 removed from separate water fountains and Jim Crow. 486 00:21:13,065 --> 00:21:15,608 And that's where "Society's Child" came in. 487 00:21:15,692 --> 00:21:18,069 I don't think that she intended to become 488 00:21:18,153 --> 00:21:20,530 like a symbol of social change. 489 00:21:20,614 --> 00:21:22,365 She was writing about what she knew. 490 00:21:22,449 --> 00:21:26,161 - [George Wallace] And I say segregation now, segregation 491 00:21:26,244 --> 00:21:28,955 tomorrow and segregation forever! 492 00:21:29,038 --> 00:21:30,749 (audience cheers) 493 00:21:30,832 --> 00:21:32,291 - [Muhammad Ali] No intelligent white person 494 00:21:32,375 --> 00:21:33,501 watching this show, 495 00:21:33,585 --> 00:21:38,214 or no intelligent white man, in his or her right white mind, 496 00:21:38,298 --> 00:21:40,884 want black boys and black girls marrying their white sons 497 00:21:40,968 --> 00:21:44,346 and daughters, and in return introducing their grandchildren 498 00:21:44,429 --> 00:21:47,849 as half-brown, kinky-haired black people. 499 00:21:47,932 --> 00:21:50,810 - [Janis] Shadow brought "Society's Child" to 22 500 00:21:50,894 --> 00:21:53,396 of the labels that were in New York then, 501 00:21:53,480 --> 00:21:56,023 and every single one of them turned it down. 502 00:21:56,107 --> 00:21:59,569 It was just too dangerous. 503 00:21:59,653 --> 00:22:03,781 - [Herb Jordan] It could cost you your life to express love 504 00:22:03,865 --> 00:22:05,409 to the wrong person. 505 00:22:05,491 --> 00:22:07,994 You know, the song was an act of courage. 506 00:22:08,077 --> 00:22:09,913 - [Janis] Finally, Verve Forecast 507 00:22:09,997 --> 00:22:13,333 released "Society's Child", and it got great reviews 508 00:22:13,416 --> 00:22:16,127 from places like the Gavin Report, 509 00:22:16,211 --> 00:22:19,047 but Gavin closed his very stellar review with, 510 00:22:19,131 --> 00:22:21,299 "Too bad it'll never see the light of day." 511 00:22:21,383 --> 00:22:23,009 - [Artie] The record company was afraid of it, 512 00:22:23,093 --> 00:22:25,345 the radio stations were afraid of playing it. 513 00:22:25,429 --> 00:22:28,140 All the odds were stacked against her with this song. 514 00:22:28,222 --> 00:22:30,142 - [Janis] Robert Shelton from the New York Times 515 00:22:30,224 --> 00:22:33,519 had heard the record and he had called David Oppenheim, 516 00:22:33,604 --> 00:22:35,439 who was Bernstein's close friend, 517 00:22:35,521 --> 00:22:37,982 and David took it to Bernstein and said, 518 00:22:38,066 --> 00:22:40,986 "Let's have her on the show we're doing about pop music." 519 00:22:41,068 --> 00:22:42,738 And Bernstein said, "Let's do better. 520 00:22:42,820 --> 00:22:44,239 Let's give her a whole segment." 521 00:22:44,323 --> 00:22:47,409 (lively organ music) 522 00:22:49,202 --> 00:22:50,369 - [Leonard Bernstein] It kills me. 523 00:22:50,453 --> 00:22:53,582 That sassy retort of the organ at the end, 524 00:22:53,664 --> 00:22:57,627 that voice, those words, and that key change. 525 00:22:57,711 --> 00:23:02,715 ♪ But for now that is the way they must remain ♪ 526 00:23:05,469 --> 00:23:09,472 ♪ I say I can't see you anymore ♪ 527 00:23:10,557 --> 00:23:11,349 - [Janey Street] I don't know if you know 528 00:23:11,432 --> 00:23:12,601 what the Leonard Bernstein show was, 529 00:23:12,683 --> 00:23:14,019 but he's the guy that wrote all the music 530 00:23:14,102 --> 00:23:16,771 in "West Side Story", and he's a brilliant man, 531 00:23:16,855 --> 00:23:18,731 and it was like being on the Ed Sullivan Show. 532 00:23:18,815 --> 00:23:20,733 - [Bernstein] Oh, Janis, how did you ever write such a thing 533 00:23:20,817 --> 00:23:21,943 at the age of 15? 534 00:23:22,027 --> 00:23:23,319 You're a great creature. 535 00:23:23,403 --> 00:23:24,153 - Thank you. 536 00:23:24,238 --> 00:23:25,948 - [Lily Tomlin] That was an embrace of God. 537 00:23:26,030 --> 00:23:28,366 And that just catapulted "Society's Child". 538 00:23:28,450 --> 00:23:30,993 - [Street] It just took off, and then she took off. 539 00:23:31,869 --> 00:23:33,454 - [Studs Terkel] "I can't see you anymore, baby. 540 00:23:33,538 --> 00:23:35,332 I won't see you anymore, baby." 541 00:23:35,414 --> 00:23:38,292 Today, the singer, the composer, Janis Ian, is our guest. 542 00:23:38,376 --> 00:23:40,295 The song is "Society's Child". 543 00:23:40,378 --> 00:23:41,797 This is perhaps one of the most censored, 544 00:23:41,880 --> 00:23:43,632 I think, of all records. 545 00:23:43,798 --> 00:23:45,550 - [Janis] Well, it's a dirty song. 546 00:23:45,634 --> 00:23:47,719 - [Studs] Why was it considered a dirty song? 547 00:23:47,803 --> 00:23:50,556 - [Janis] 'Cause it talks about Blacks and Whites, 548 00:23:50,638 --> 00:23:53,683 and people don't like hearing that, because it scares them. 549 00:23:53,767 --> 00:23:56,353 - [Officer] This march will not continue. 550 00:23:56,435 --> 00:23:58,313 (protestors scream) 551 00:23:58,396 --> 00:24:02,067 - [Herb Jordan] What she sang about in 1966 and 1967 552 00:24:02,150 --> 00:24:03,402 still exists. 553 00:24:03,484 --> 00:24:05,112 People measure their words. 554 00:24:05,194 --> 00:24:07,364 People are very careful about what they say, 555 00:24:07,446 --> 00:24:09,074 but it still exists. 556 00:24:09,156 --> 00:24:11,742 - [Tomlin] It was a very strong, emphatic 557 00:24:11,826 --> 00:24:13,412 social commentary. 558 00:24:13,494 --> 00:24:14,621 (gun fires) 559 00:24:14,704 --> 00:24:16,539 - [Studs Terkel] We live in a kind of world where 560 00:24:16,623 --> 00:24:18,834 when you want to shout and you want to talk about it, 561 00:24:18,916 --> 00:24:21,002 we'll say, "Shh, now cut it out, you're dangerous." 562 00:24:21,086 --> 00:24:22,086 You're not really a threat. 563 00:24:22,171 --> 00:24:23,212 Somewhere they were saying, 564 00:24:23,297 --> 00:24:25,048 "you're attacking the older generation." 565 00:24:25,132 --> 00:24:28,343 - [Janis] I'm not attacking anybody, except hypocrites. 566 00:24:28,426 --> 00:24:30,261 - [Joan Baez] It would bother the progressives, 567 00:24:30,345 --> 00:24:32,556 'cause it wasn't progressive enough for them, 568 00:24:32,638 --> 00:24:36,184 and it would bother the racists to talk about, 569 00:24:36,268 --> 00:24:38,811 you know, integration, basically. 570 00:24:38,895 --> 00:24:40,396 Well, I would say congratulations. 571 00:24:40,480 --> 00:24:42,648 If you get both sides nipping at your heels, 572 00:24:42,732 --> 00:24:44,401 you know you're doing something right. 573 00:24:44,483 --> 00:24:45,652 - [Brooks] Some of the club owners wouldn't even 574 00:24:45,736 --> 00:24:47,487 let her get onstage, 575 00:24:47,945 --> 00:24:49,405 for fear of what might happen. 576 00:24:49,489 --> 00:24:51,950 - [Artie] I did not know that. How sad. 577 00:24:53,076 --> 00:24:55,913 - [Janis] "Society's Child" was the first song 578 00:24:55,996 --> 00:24:59,875 to come along to incite national anger. 579 00:25:00,375 --> 00:25:02,211 I was suddenly dealing with things like, 580 00:25:02,294 --> 00:25:05,588 do I go onstage when I know that someone has sent in 581 00:25:05,672 --> 00:25:07,673 a bomb threat to the theater? 582 00:25:07,758 --> 00:25:11,803 - [Greg Caz] Anybody who wrote that song at that time 583 00:25:11,886 --> 00:25:14,096 was always gonna run into some problems. 584 00:25:14,181 --> 00:25:17,099 ♪ Don't let it bother you ♪ 585 00:25:17,183 --> 00:25:18,644 - [Janis] By the time I hit Encino, 586 00:25:18,727 --> 00:25:22,189 it was probably my fourth or fifth time on a concert stage, 587 00:25:22,271 --> 00:25:25,526 and I sang my first four or five songs. 588 00:25:27,693 --> 00:25:30,696 (audience applauds) 589 00:25:30,780 --> 00:25:34,867 ♪ Come to my door, baby ♪ 590 00:25:34,951 --> 00:25:38,704 ♪ Face is clean and shining black as night ♪ 591 00:25:38,788 --> 00:25:41,083 ♪ My mother went to answer ♪ 592 00:25:41,165 --> 00:25:44,545 ♪ You know that you looked so fine ♪ 593 00:25:44,627 --> 00:25:47,047 When I started "Society's Child", 594 00:25:47,130 --> 00:25:50,217 these people started yelling. 595 00:25:50,299 --> 00:25:52,510 And I thought that they were yelling something nice, 596 00:25:52,594 --> 00:25:54,846 'cause onstage, you can't really hear 597 00:25:54,930 --> 00:25:57,766 what people are yelling very clearly. 598 00:25:57,849 --> 00:25:59,852 But I realized that they were all yelling 599 00:25:59,934 --> 00:26:01,811 "Nigger lover" at me. 600 00:26:01,894 --> 00:26:04,272 I didn't know if it was 10 or 20 people, 601 00:26:04,355 --> 00:26:07,150 or if it was the majority of the audience. 602 00:26:07,233 --> 00:26:12,823 It became this horrible, almost prayer-like chant. 603 00:26:12,905 --> 00:26:16,117 "Nigger lover, nigger lover. Beat, beat, beat, mm. 604 00:26:16,201 --> 00:26:20,663 Nigger lover, nigger lover. Beat, beat, beat, mm." 605 00:26:20,747 --> 00:26:23,584 Nobody in the audience knew what to do. 606 00:26:23,666 --> 00:26:26,670 I tried to keep singing and I tried to keep my wits about me 607 00:26:26,752 --> 00:26:28,630 but they got louder and louder. 608 00:26:28,713 --> 00:26:31,215 (audience jeers) (heartbeat thumps) 609 00:26:31,299 --> 00:26:35,345 And I knew that I was gonna start to cry, and I, 610 00:26:35,429 --> 00:26:38,390 I didn't want them to see me cry. 611 00:26:38,472 --> 00:26:42,519 So, I put down my guitar on the stage, 612 00:26:43,979 --> 00:26:48,150 and I walked off stage and I went to the restroom. 613 00:26:48,232 --> 00:26:51,944 (footsteps running) 614 00:26:52,028 --> 00:26:54,405 And I started to cry. 615 00:26:54,489 --> 00:26:57,075 I just didn't know what I was supposed to do. 616 00:26:57,159 --> 00:26:59,493 (Janis sobs) 617 00:26:59,577 --> 00:27:02,288 The promoter came in. (Janis chuckles) 618 00:27:02,372 --> 00:27:03,789 And he had been in the box office. 619 00:27:03,874 --> 00:27:05,291 He had no idea what had happened. 620 00:27:05,375 --> 00:27:07,877 So, he asked me what I was doing offstage. 621 00:27:07,961 --> 00:27:10,588 And I said, "Well, they were calling me a name." 622 00:27:10,672 --> 00:27:12,423 I couldn't even say the words. 623 00:27:12,508 --> 00:27:15,885 I had been so raised not to use that word. 624 00:27:15,969 --> 00:27:18,262 And he asked me what they were calling me and I told him 625 00:27:18,346 --> 00:27:19,222 and he looked at me and he said, 626 00:27:19,306 --> 00:27:20,516 "Well, you don't leave the stage 627 00:27:20,598 --> 00:27:23,602 because somebody called you a name." 628 00:27:23,684 --> 00:27:26,563 People were getting shot. People were getting knifed. 629 00:27:26,646 --> 00:27:28,440 People were disappearing. 630 00:27:28,523 --> 00:27:30,942 Freedom Riders were getting killed 631 00:27:31,026 --> 00:27:33,737 It was civil war and I didn't want to die. 632 00:27:33,819 --> 00:27:36,155 I really did not want to die. 633 00:27:36,240 --> 00:27:40,035 We argued for quite a while and it felt like years. 634 00:27:40,117 --> 00:27:42,703 And he finally said something like, 635 00:27:42,788 --> 00:27:46,959 "I can't believe the girl who wrote that song is a coward." 636 00:27:47,041 --> 00:27:49,795 And I thought about that for a really long time because 637 00:27:49,877 --> 00:27:52,798 I had been raised to be a Maccabee. 638 00:27:52,881 --> 00:27:57,678 My family came from Russia so that I could have a chance. 639 00:27:57,760 --> 00:28:01,265 My grandfather was arrested on his way across Russia 640 00:28:01,347 --> 00:28:03,808 and locked up and beaten so badly 641 00:28:03,892 --> 00:28:06,228 that his left hand was forever maimed. 642 00:28:06,310 --> 00:28:09,605 My grandmother had hidden in a hayloft 643 00:28:09,690 --> 00:28:13,402 and watched part of her family slaughtered in a pogrom. 644 00:28:13,484 --> 00:28:16,821 My parents had both fought and fought and fought 645 00:28:16,904 --> 00:28:21,034 so that I could have a stable life and get to go to school. 646 00:28:21,117 --> 00:28:24,328 And my friends were getting clubbed and hosed. 647 00:28:24,413 --> 00:28:26,957 And who was I to leave the stage? 648 00:28:27,039 --> 00:28:31,836 So, I went back on stage and I picked up my guitar, 649 00:28:31,920 --> 00:28:36,924 and I started to sing again and I thought "Okay, here I am." 650 00:28:38,259 --> 00:28:41,596 ♪ Come to my door, baby ♪ 651 00:28:43,015 --> 00:28:45,142 And I made it my business to get through the song, 652 00:28:45,224 --> 00:28:48,144 get through the show, and as I kept singing the song, 653 00:28:48,228 --> 00:28:50,689 they kept yelling and fist-pumping, 654 00:28:50,771 --> 00:28:53,066 and they were standing by now. 655 00:28:53,150 --> 00:28:57,570 And then all of these ushers came like a swarm of bees 656 00:28:57,653 --> 00:29:00,615 from the back and they shone their flashlights 657 00:29:00,699 --> 00:29:02,910 into these people's faces so that the whole audience 658 00:29:02,992 --> 00:29:04,786 could see who they were. 659 00:29:04,869 --> 00:29:07,580 And then the theater manager came and he threw them out. 660 00:29:07,663 --> 00:29:09,040 The whole clack of 'em. 661 00:29:09,124 --> 00:29:12,251 ♪ But honey he's not our kind ♪ (audience applauds) 662 00:29:12,336 --> 00:29:14,796 And in between realizing that these 20-odd people 663 00:29:14,880 --> 00:29:16,673 had actually bought tickets 664 00:29:16,757 --> 00:29:20,384 with the express purpose of booing me off the stage, 665 00:29:20,469 --> 00:29:25,140 there was also this sense that what I was doing was right 666 00:29:25,223 --> 00:29:27,308 and that's why it scared them. 667 00:29:27,392 --> 00:29:30,645 And these other people, people my age who were ushers, 668 00:29:30,729 --> 00:29:32,605 the theater manager and his group, 669 00:29:32,689 --> 00:29:34,316 they were supporting me, 670 00:29:34,398 --> 00:29:36,817 and most of the audience was supporting me. 671 00:29:36,902 --> 00:29:41,906 ♪ I'm going to raise my glistening wings and fly ♪ 672 00:29:43,784 --> 00:29:47,703 ♪ But that day will have to wait for a while ♪ 673 00:29:47,788 --> 00:29:52,584 ♪ Baby, I'm only society's child ♪ 674 00:29:52,667 --> 00:29:56,337 It was a life-changing moment for me because 675 00:29:56,421 --> 00:29:59,007 I realized, for the first time, 676 00:30:00,049 --> 00:30:01,634 that the song didn't just have the power 677 00:30:01,718 --> 00:30:04,930 to make people angry, but it had the power to make people 678 00:30:05,012 --> 00:30:08,683 stand up and stand up for what they believed, 679 00:30:08,767 --> 00:30:12,688 and that was a huge deal that music could do that. 680 00:30:12,770 --> 00:30:15,648 I think that was a large part of what set me on my course. 681 00:30:15,731 --> 00:30:21,404 ♪ Don't wanna see you anymore, baby ♪ 682 00:30:24,740 --> 00:30:27,035 - [Arlo Guthrie] I'd obviously heard the name 683 00:30:27,118 --> 00:30:30,122 Janis Ian before we met. 684 00:30:30,204 --> 00:30:33,666 The first time we actually looked at each other eye to eye 685 00:30:33,750 --> 00:30:37,587 was probably at the Grammys, which was '67 or '68, '69, 686 00:30:37,671 --> 00:30:38,755 something like that. 687 00:30:38,838 --> 00:30:42,509 She had bought this gown in the village in New York 688 00:30:42,593 --> 00:30:44,720 at that time, just for this occasion. 689 00:30:44,803 --> 00:30:46,930 Janis Joplin had helped her pick it out. 690 00:30:47,013 --> 00:30:48,515 I thought that was pretty cool. 691 00:30:48,598 --> 00:30:51,268 (spacey electric guitar music) 692 00:30:51,351 --> 00:30:52,769 - [Janis] I got to work with Joplin 693 00:30:52,853 --> 00:30:54,188 at the Berklee Folk Festival. 694 00:30:54,270 --> 00:30:57,148 Then I would play guitar after hours with Jimi Hendrix. 695 00:30:57,231 --> 00:30:58,858 They didn't care that I was 16. 696 00:30:58,942 --> 00:31:00,986 They were protective because of my age, 697 00:31:01,068 --> 00:31:02,153 but otherwise, it didn't matter. 698 00:31:02,237 --> 00:31:03,989 What mattered was the songs I was writing. 699 00:31:04,071 --> 00:31:05,824 [Janis Sings "Queen Merka And Me"] 700 00:31:05,907 --> 00:31:07,659 ♪ Oh, the pretty little girl, on Easter's day ♪ 701 00:31:07,742 --> 00:31:10,996 ♪ By a bright center fountain consented to play ♪ 702 00:31:11,078 --> 00:31:13,123 ♪ Held an Easter star ♪ 703 00:31:13,207 --> 00:31:16,375 I went on the Society's Child Tour with Merka, 704 00:31:16,460 --> 00:31:19,462 my friend from camp, who was five years older than me, 705 00:31:19,546 --> 00:31:22,257 and whose family had known mine since before I was born, 706 00:31:22,340 --> 00:31:23,258 as a chaperone. 707 00:31:23,342 --> 00:31:25,219 I had to have a chaperone because of the 708 00:31:25,301 --> 00:31:27,011 childhood labor laws. 709 00:31:27,095 --> 00:31:28,513 So, it was just me and Merka, 710 00:31:28,596 --> 00:31:31,682 and it was great because she was like a big sister. 711 00:31:31,767 --> 00:31:34,603 - [Announcer] It's the Smothers Brothers Comedy Hour. 712 00:31:34,685 --> 00:31:35,686 - [Dick Smothers] We're going to present 713 00:31:35,770 --> 00:31:37,146 an extremely talented 714 00:31:37,230 --> 00:31:39,982 and very amazing young lady named Janis Ian. 715 00:31:40,067 --> 00:31:41,817 - [Janis] I was a big fan of the Smothers Brothers. 716 00:31:41,902 --> 00:31:44,320 It was a huge deal to me to go on that. 717 00:31:44,403 --> 00:31:47,074 But when you're shooting a TV show, 718 00:31:47,156 --> 00:31:50,410 especially in those days, there's a lot of waiting around. 719 00:31:50,493 --> 00:31:51,994 You might get there at eight o'clock, 720 00:31:52,078 --> 00:31:54,580 and not be called until two o'clock in the afternoon. 721 00:31:54,664 --> 00:31:56,500 And then you might be called for 10 minutes, 722 00:31:56,583 --> 00:31:58,167 they show you your marks and then you go away 723 00:31:58,251 --> 00:31:59,586 until showtime at 10. 724 00:31:59,670 --> 00:32:02,839 Merka was there with me and there was only one chair. 725 00:32:02,923 --> 00:32:05,259 So, I fell asleep sitting on her lap. 726 00:32:05,342 --> 00:32:08,261 And apparently, Bill Cosby saw us, 727 00:32:08,345 --> 00:32:10,931 and decided that we were lesbian lovers. 728 00:32:11,013 --> 00:32:12,807 - [Lily Tomlin] Bill Cosby spoke out against her. 729 00:32:12,891 --> 00:32:15,184 He said she was probably a lesbian. 730 00:32:15,269 --> 00:32:16,936 He said that to the press. 731 00:32:17,019 --> 00:32:19,522 - [Janis] My manager then, Jean Harcourt Powell, 732 00:32:19,605 --> 00:32:20,773 read me the riot act. 733 00:32:20,857 --> 00:32:22,651 She said that I had almost gotten myself 734 00:32:22,733 --> 00:32:24,611 bounced from television forever. 735 00:32:24,694 --> 00:32:26,779 My contract had morals clauses in it. 736 00:32:26,864 --> 00:32:29,449 I could've lost my ability to perform anywhere. 737 00:32:29,532 --> 00:32:31,451 I could've lost my union membership. 738 00:32:31,535 --> 00:32:35,038 So, I was forbidden from ever hugging Merka in public, 739 00:32:35,122 --> 00:32:36,330 or sitting in her lap, 740 00:32:36,414 --> 00:32:38,709 or doing anything that might be misconstrued. 741 00:32:38,791 --> 00:32:41,295 - [Interviewer] How do you react to the music business? 742 00:32:41,377 --> 00:32:42,587 - [Janis] If you want to be a star, 743 00:32:42,671 --> 00:32:45,298 then you have to do what's necessary to become a star. 744 00:32:45,382 --> 00:32:46,549 - [Interviewer] What's that? 745 00:32:46,633 --> 00:32:49,051 - [Janis] You have to sacrifice a certain part of yourself 746 00:32:49,135 --> 00:32:52,597 for a time and you have to set a balance between 747 00:32:52,681 --> 00:32:55,642 what you say and do and what you really want to say and do. 748 00:32:55,726 --> 00:32:57,603 I haven't resolved it yet at all. 749 00:32:57,685 --> 00:32:59,688 - [Janey Street] Child prodigies in general, 750 00:32:59,770 --> 00:33:00,980 and she was one, 751 00:33:01,064 --> 00:33:02,356 have complications. 752 00:33:02,441 --> 00:33:05,736 15 years old, I think she had $750,000 in the bank. 753 00:33:05,818 --> 00:33:06,987 It's just weird. 754 00:33:07,069 --> 00:33:08,946 (school bell rings) 755 00:33:09,030 --> 00:33:10,740 - [Janis] Can I just say without going into detail 756 00:33:10,824 --> 00:33:12,326 that I hated school? 757 00:33:12,409 --> 00:33:14,994 My teachers gave me a very hard time. 758 00:33:15,077 --> 00:33:16,496 - [Interviewer] What's happened with school with you now? 759 00:33:16,579 --> 00:33:17,623 Are you still in school? 760 00:33:17,705 --> 00:33:20,291 - [Janis] My presence in class was found to be disturbing, 761 00:33:20,375 --> 00:33:22,044 and I was asked to leave. 762 00:33:22,126 --> 00:33:24,671 - [Interviewer] How disturbing? I mean, emotionally? 763 00:33:24,755 --> 00:33:27,132 - [Janis] No, not me. I mean it wasn't disturbing me. 764 00:33:27,215 --> 00:33:28,174 - [Interviewer] It was disturbing- 765 00:33:28,258 --> 00:33:29,800 - [Janis] It was disturbing the teachers. 766 00:33:29,884 --> 00:33:32,512 They get they get very disturbed teachers in New York. 767 00:33:32,596 --> 00:33:35,598 (audience laughs) 768 00:33:37,476 --> 00:33:39,269 ♪ Stop hey, what's that sound ♪ 769 00:33:39,353 --> 00:33:42,522 ♪ Everybody look what's goin' down ♪ 770 00:33:43,231 --> 00:33:45,858 - [Peter Cunningham] In the fall of 1967, the Vietnam War 771 00:33:45,942 --> 00:33:47,236 was going strong. 772 00:33:47,318 --> 00:33:49,363 There was a march on Washington to go to. 773 00:33:49,445 --> 00:33:51,740 My friend John Howell and Merka, 774 00:33:51,823 --> 00:33:54,492 they were driving down to the march on Washington. 775 00:33:54,576 --> 00:33:56,912 So, I went with them, and on the way, 776 00:33:56,994 --> 00:34:00,039 they wanted to stop by and say hello to Janis in New York. 777 00:34:00,123 --> 00:34:03,042 (lock clicks) 778 00:34:03,125 --> 00:34:06,880 I happened to have a pumpkin, so I presented a pumpkin. 779 00:34:06,963 --> 00:34:08,590 - [Janis] He held a pumpkin out, and I thought 780 00:34:08,673 --> 00:34:11,217 he was the most adorable thing I had ever seen. 781 00:34:11,300 --> 00:34:15,264 We were lovers for five years, and friends since. 782 00:34:15,347 --> 00:34:19,226 - [Peter] We toured the country in small clubs. 783 00:34:19,309 --> 00:34:21,311 Then we came back to New York, 784 00:34:21,394 --> 00:34:25,065 and we got an apartment on 72nd Street. 785 00:34:25,148 --> 00:34:28,068 We learned to cook spaghetti with sauce, 786 00:34:28,150 --> 00:34:31,112 and the Beatles' White Album came out that fall, 787 00:34:31,195 --> 00:34:33,865 so we listened intently to that. 788 00:34:33,949 --> 00:34:38,036 Janis and I never talked about "Society's Child". 789 00:34:38,119 --> 00:34:39,204 Never. 790 00:34:39,871 --> 00:34:44,876 And she also never sang the song onstage, 791 00:34:44,960 --> 00:34:46,043 when I was with her. 792 00:34:46,128 --> 00:34:49,422 - [Janis] I got really tired of seeing posters that said, 793 00:34:49,505 --> 00:34:52,717 "Little Janis Ian, Society's Child, live tonight." 794 00:34:52,800 --> 00:34:54,427 - [Peter] It wasn't the best move 795 00:34:54,510 --> 00:34:55,971 to never sing your hit song. 796 00:34:56,054 --> 00:34:57,722 - [Janis] The record company wanted to follow up 797 00:34:57,806 --> 00:35:00,391 "Society's Child" with something equally important, 798 00:35:00,474 --> 00:35:02,561 and I was barely a writer. 799 00:35:02,643 --> 00:35:04,271 So, it was just one thing after another, 800 00:35:04,353 --> 00:35:06,815 in this perfect storm of horrible things. 801 00:35:06,898 --> 00:35:09,150 - [Radio Host] Back last May, Henrietta Yurchenko and I 802 00:35:09,233 --> 00:35:11,652 brought you an interview with a virtually unknown young lady 803 00:35:11,737 --> 00:35:13,322 by the name of Janis Fink. 804 00:35:13,405 --> 00:35:14,989 She is widely known for her singing 805 00:35:15,072 --> 00:35:16,949 and her songs as Janis Ian, 806 00:35:17,034 --> 00:35:19,452 and tomorrow night, Friday, December 8th, 807 00:35:19,536 --> 00:35:22,664 Janis will be making her debut at Philharmonic Hall 808 00:35:22,748 --> 00:35:25,918 in a solo concert that I guess will be virtually sold out. 809 00:35:26,001 --> 00:35:28,170 (acoustic guitar strums) (audience applauds) 810 00:35:28,253 --> 00:35:30,630 - [Janis] When I was 17, I played Philharmonic Hall, 811 00:35:30,713 --> 00:35:33,342 and as I walked off stage I said to my then manager, 812 00:35:33,425 --> 00:35:34,550 "I'm done. I'm leaving. 813 00:35:34,635 --> 00:35:36,929 I'm finishing my contracts, I'm leaving." 814 00:35:37,012 --> 00:35:38,597 And she said, "They all say that." 815 00:35:38,679 --> 00:35:41,474 I remember that's what she said, and I said, 816 00:35:41,557 --> 00:35:44,101 "They may all say that, but I'm doing it." 817 00:35:44,186 --> 00:35:46,355 - [Peter] That was '67 and then '68 happened 818 00:35:46,438 --> 00:35:49,233 and change was happening all over the world. 819 00:35:49,315 --> 00:35:51,818 We were going to see a B.B. King and Janis Joplin. 820 00:35:51,902 --> 00:35:54,987 It was at Generation Club where Jimi Hendrix had his studio. 821 00:35:55,072 --> 00:35:58,492 - [Janis] Somebody came out on stage, interrupted the show, 822 00:35:58,574 --> 00:36:01,744 and said something to B.B. and he announced to the room 823 00:36:01,827 --> 00:36:04,956 that Martin Luther King had been shot and was dead. 824 00:36:05,039 --> 00:36:07,708 And then he played, 'cause what else do you do? 825 00:36:07,793 --> 00:36:09,418 (mellow blues music) 826 00:36:09,503 --> 00:36:10,920 - (BB King, "There Must Be A Better World Somewhere") 827 00:36:11,003 --> 00:36:14,967 ♪ Sometimes I wonder ♪ 828 00:36:15,050 --> 00:36:17,719 ♪ Just what I'm out fighting for ♪ 829 00:36:17,802 --> 00:36:19,554 - [News Anchor] The Reverend Dr. Martin Luther King, 830 00:36:19,637 --> 00:36:20,847 39 years old, 831 00:36:20,931 --> 00:36:22,849 and a Nobel Peace Prize winner, 832 00:36:22,932 --> 00:36:25,268 and the leader of the non-violent civil rights movement 833 00:36:25,434 --> 00:36:28,813 in the United States, was assassinated in Memphis tonight. 834 00:36:28,896 --> 00:36:31,692 ♪ I keep right on stumbling ♪ 835 00:36:31,775 --> 00:36:35,570 ♪ In this no-man's land out here ♪ 836 00:36:35,653 --> 00:36:38,574 - [Peter] Our hearts got ripped out a lot, at that time. 837 00:36:38,657 --> 00:36:41,742 - [Janis] We listened and played until dawn. 838 00:36:41,827 --> 00:36:43,536 Everybody was so shook. 839 00:36:43,619 --> 00:36:46,581 And then I decided that I would walk home. 840 00:36:46,664 --> 00:36:50,293 And on my way home, a big beefy guy bumped into me 841 00:36:50,376 --> 00:36:51,586 and knocked me flat. 842 00:36:51,670 --> 00:36:53,463 This other guy rushed forward and he said, 843 00:36:53,547 --> 00:36:54,840 "Hey, you okay? You okay, you okay?" 844 00:36:54,922 --> 00:36:58,010 And I said, "I'm all right." And he gave me a Coca-Cola. 845 00:36:58,092 --> 00:37:01,679 I guzzled about a third of it and things got really weird. 846 00:37:01,762 --> 00:37:03,139 (Janis Ian, "Insanity Comes Quietly to the Structured Mind") 847 00:37:03,222 --> 00:37:06,684 ♪ She sits on a windowsill, looking down it's quite a thrill ♪ 848 00:37:07,978 --> 00:37:10,063 The world started to shimmer. 849 00:37:10,146 --> 00:37:12,231 It was like everything had light at the edges. 850 00:37:12,315 --> 00:37:14,400 There were flames, cars were melting, 851 00:37:14,483 --> 00:37:16,570 and then the street got wavy. 852 00:37:16,652 --> 00:37:19,280 It was your proverbial bad acid trip. 853 00:37:19,364 --> 00:37:21,574 Now, in retrospect, I know if I'd drunk that whole thing, 854 00:37:21,657 --> 00:37:23,076 I would've been checked out forever. 855 00:37:23,159 --> 00:37:25,329 ♪ Looking outward through my pain ♪ 856 00:37:25,411 --> 00:37:29,041 ♪ Looking through my window pane ♪ 857 00:37:29,123 --> 00:37:32,960 ♪ See her face turn into rain ♪ 858 00:37:34,086 --> 00:37:37,090 - [Janis] I was just hallucinating for four days. 859 00:37:37,173 --> 00:37:38,967 - [Peter] She would say crazy things. 860 00:37:39,050 --> 00:37:41,094 No, she wouldn't be able to answer the phone. 861 00:37:41,177 --> 00:37:43,931 She refused to talk to people. 862 00:37:44,014 --> 00:37:47,016 (upbeat rock music) 863 00:37:48,143 --> 00:37:52,356 ♪ Well, I'm tired of being a fool ♪ 864 00:37:52,438 --> 00:37:56,735 ♪ And my mind going from hot to cool ♪ 865 00:37:56,818 --> 00:38:01,114 ♪ And trying to conform to others ideas ♪ 866 00:38:01,197 --> 00:38:04,617 ♪ And someone else's rules ♪ 867 00:38:04,701 --> 00:38:07,913 - [Peter] She was not able to cope with daily reality. 868 00:38:07,996 --> 00:38:09,748 - [Janis] I was terrified, most of the time. 869 00:38:09,831 --> 00:38:11,750 I smoked a lot of dope. 870 00:38:13,335 --> 00:38:16,380 I just wanted to sleep until it was different. 871 00:38:16,463 --> 00:38:18,382 So, I took a lot of Seconal 872 00:38:18,465 --> 00:38:21,092 when Peter was supposed to be gone for the day. 873 00:38:21,175 --> 00:38:23,344 I got very lucky that he came home early, 874 00:38:23,427 --> 00:38:26,597 and he found me and took me to the hospital. 875 00:38:26,681 --> 00:38:28,224 - [Peter] She stopped functioning, 876 00:38:28,307 --> 00:38:29,934 and her friend, Carol Hunter, 877 00:38:30,018 --> 00:38:34,273 who's a guitar player, helped Janis find a shrink, 878 00:38:34,356 --> 00:38:36,858 and the shrink was in Philadelphia. 879 00:38:36,942 --> 00:38:40,612 (wipers thump rhythmically) 880 00:38:42,572 --> 00:38:45,117 - [Peter] We went to Philadelphia and met this amazing man 881 00:38:45,199 --> 00:38:46,617 named Jerry Weiss. 882 00:38:46,702 --> 00:38:48,119 - [Janis] Jerry said to me, 883 00:38:48,202 --> 00:38:50,121 "If you keep trying to kill yourself, 884 00:38:50,204 --> 00:38:52,583 I'm going to put you somewhere where there will be no pen, 885 00:38:52,666 --> 00:38:54,208 no paper, and no piano." 886 00:38:54,293 --> 00:38:55,585 And that took care of it for me. 887 00:38:55,668 --> 00:38:57,211 There was no way I was going there. 888 00:38:57,295 --> 00:38:58,380 - [Janis] Peter brought me books. 889 00:38:58,463 --> 00:39:01,592 He brought me Rimbaud, Cocteau, all the great poets. 890 00:39:01,675 --> 00:39:03,635 All the things that I had never really been exposed to, 891 00:39:03,719 --> 00:39:04,887 because of my age. 892 00:39:05,262 --> 00:39:07,431 - [Peter] That kind of just normal life, 893 00:39:07,514 --> 00:39:10,516 not having to be onstage and on, all the time. 894 00:39:10,601 --> 00:39:12,728 It was something I could give to her, 895 00:39:12,811 --> 00:39:15,688 so she was able to find herself in a different way. 896 00:39:15,771 --> 00:39:17,023 - [Janis] The middle of the winter, 897 00:39:17,106 --> 00:39:18,983 I walked out with no jacket, 898 00:39:19,067 --> 00:39:21,277 and I took the train into Central Philadelphia, 899 00:39:21,360 --> 00:39:23,070 not telling Peter where I was going, of course, 900 00:39:23,155 --> 00:39:24,489 'cause why would I? 901 00:39:25,532 --> 00:39:29,369 - [Peter] She just disappeared one day I was fearing the worst, you know? 902 00:39:29,452 --> 00:39:30,954 Some kind of self-harm. 903 00:39:31,038 --> 00:39:33,373 And Jerry Weiss, who had never lost a patience, 904 00:39:33,456 --> 00:39:35,208 was also concerned. 905 00:39:35,291 --> 00:39:38,378 - [Janis] I stayed at the library, and I just wrote. 906 00:39:38,461 --> 00:39:40,172 I just wrote for the day. 907 00:39:41,965 --> 00:39:45,010 That night, I walked over to Jerry's office, 908 00:39:45,092 --> 00:39:47,471 found him in his car, and he started crying, 909 00:39:47,554 --> 00:39:49,639 and it suddenly occurred to me that there were people 910 00:39:49,722 --> 00:39:51,599 who really cared about me. 911 00:39:51,682 --> 00:39:54,393 Not my music, not my talent. Me. 912 00:39:54,478 --> 00:39:55,938 That was a big realization. 913 00:39:56,021 --> 00:39:59,190 And then somebody had sent me Don McLean's record, 914 00:39:59,273 --> 00:40:00,483 and I heard "Vincent". 915 00:40:00,567 --> 00:40:04,780 ♪ Starry, starry night ♪ 916 00:40:04,862 --> 00:40:09,451 ♪ Paint your palette blue and gray ♪ 917 00:40:09,534 --> 00:40:12,746 ♪ Look out on a summer's day ♪ 918 00:40:12,829 --> 00:40:17,000 ♪ With eyes that know the darkness in my soul ♪ 919 00:40:17,083 --> 00:40:18,876 - [Janis] It was everything that I ever wanted 920 00:40:18,960 --> 00:40:20,295 to be as a writer. 921 00:40:20,378 --> 00:40:23,923 It was true, it was beautiful, it was elegant, 922 00:40:24,007 --> 00:40:25,467 but it was accessible. 923 00:40:25,550 --> 00:40:29,679 ♪ And how you suffered for your sanity ♪ 924 00:40:29,762 --> 00:40:31,889 - [Janis] It's a brave song, and for me, 925 00:40:31,974 --> 00:40:33,724 it taught me that Jerry Weiss was right. 926 00:40:33,809 --> 00:40:37,436 The best way for me to write was from an open place. 927 00:40:37,521 --> 00:40:40,815 ♪ Perhaps they'll listen now ♪ 928 00:40:40,898 --> 00:40:43,777 - [Peter] She was playing music all the time and writing, 929 00:40:43,860 --> 00:40:46,655 and at the same time, I picked up a camera 930 00:40:46,737 --> 00:40:49,532 for the first time and fell in love with the darkroom. 931 00:40:49,615 --> 00:40:50,742 (water splashes) 932 00:40:50,826 --> 00:40:52,327 (light guitar strumming) 933 00:40:53,202 --> 00:40:54,871 - [Peter] I was in the darkroom and I'm quite engaged 934 00:40:54,954 --> 00:40:56,748 with what I was doing and she was right on the other side 935 00:40:56,831 --> 00:40:59,251 of the door sitting, I think, on the floor, 936 00:40:59,333 --> 00:41:01,503 picking at her guitar and apparently 937 00:41:01,586 --> 00:41:03,922 writing a song called "Stars". 938 00:41:04,630 --> 00:41:09,635 ♪ I was never one for singing ♪ 939 00:41:10,512 --> 00:41:12,181 ♪ What I ♪ 940 00:41:12,264 --> 00:41:14,724 ♪ Really feel ♪ 941 00:41:15,851 --> 00:41:17,393 - It's a song that has perspective 942 00:41:17,476 --> 00:41:19,271 on what it means to be a performer. 943 00:41:19,353 --> 00:41:21,690 People will pay attention to you and then they won't. 944 00:41:21,773 --> 00:41:23,983 Your star will rise and then it will fall, 945 00:41:24,067 --> 00:41:25,652 and that is the way of the world. 946 00:41:25,735 --> 00:41:30,615 ♪ Stars, they come and go ♪ 947 00:41:30,699 --> 00:41:33,827 ♪ They come fast, they come slow ♪ 948 00:41:33,911 --> 00:41:38,916 ♪ They go like the last light of the sun, all in a blaze ♪ 949 00:41:42,376 --> 00:41:47,340 ♪ And all you see is glory ♪ 950 00:41:48,592 --> 00:41:51,762 ♪ Some make it when they're young ♪ 951 00:41:51,844 --> 00:41:56,807 ♪ Before the world has done its dirty job ♪ 952 00:41:56,891 --> 00:42:01,855 ♪ Later on, someone will say you've had your day ♪ 953 00:42:01,938 --> 00:42:04,273 ♪ You must make way ♪ 954 00:42:04,358 --> 00:42:05,358 - [Ann Powers] It's interesting to me 955 00:42:05,442 --> 00:42:06,693 that "Stars" was inspired 956 00:42:06,777 --> 00:42:07,945 by Don McLean's song "Vincent", 957 00:42:08,027 --> 00:42:10,239 because they're very different in a way. 958 00:42:10,322 --> 00:42:13,407 Janis actually goes somewhere that Don McLean didn't go, 959 00:42:13,492 --> 00:42:17,036 which is into self-analysis and observations 960 00:42:17,119 --> 00:42:20,373 about the present day, about the attractions of stardom, 961 00:42:20,456 --> 00:42:22,501 as well as the way it damages people. 962 00:42:22,583 --> 00:42:27,297 ♪ I just meant to tell a story ♪ 963 00:42:27,380 --> 00:42:30,967 ♪ I lived from day to day ♪ 964 00:42:31,050 --> 00:42:32,219 - [Janis] "Stars" is my story. 965 00:42:32,302 --> 00:42:34,346 "Stars" is every performer's story, in a way. 966 00:42:34,429 --> 00:42:37,599 That's probably why it's my most recorded song. 967 00:42:37,682 --> 00:42:40,561 But for me, after I wrote "Stars" and then "Jesse", 968 00:42:40,643 --> 00:42:43,605 I thought, "Well, maybe I can be a really good writer." 969 00:42:43,688 --> 00:42:45,398 "Jesse", take one. 970 00:42:45,481 --> 00:42:49,527 ♪ Jesse, come home ♪ 971 00:42:49,610 --> 00:42:53,447 ♪ There's a hole in the bed ♪ 972 00:42:53,532 --> 00:42:56,159 ♪ Where we slept ♪ 973 00:42:56,242 --> 00:42:57,952 - [Joan Baez] "Jesse" has an aura. 974 00:42:58,036 --> 00:43:00,414 It is something unique and it gets under your skin 975 00:43:00,496 --> 00:43:03,708 and you can't really say what all that is. 976 00:43:03,791 --> 00:43:06,420 ♪ Hey, Jesse ♪ 977 00:43:06,503 --> 00:43:08,338 ♪ Your face ♪ 978 00:43:08,422 --> 00:43:12,092 ♪ In the place where we lay ♪ 979 00:43:12,175 --> 00:43:14,469 ♪ By the hearth ♪ 980 00:43:14,552 --> 00:43:18,306 - [Baez] Somebody's lonesome and wants their person back. 981 00:43:18,389 --> 00:43:20,726 To find the ways to say that that aren't trite, 982 00:43:20,809 --> 00:43:22,101 that's the trick. 983 00:43:22,186 --> 00:43:24,271 I think that's what makes the song brilliant. 984 00:43:24,353 --> 00:43:29,275 ♪ And I'm keeping the light on the stairs ♪ 985 00:43:29,358 --> 00:43:31,068 - [Powers] It takes you right into 986 00:43:31,152 --> 00:43:32,653 the experience of longing, 987 00:43:32,737 --> 00:43:33,655 of yearning, of hunger, 988 00:43:33,739 --> 00:43:37,159 of almost being blinded by loneliness. 989 00:43:37,242 --> 00:43:39,619 ♪ Hey, Jess ♪ 990 00:43:39,702 --> 00:43:42,206 ♪ Me and you ♪ 991 00:43:42,289 --> 00:43:45,416 ♪ We'll swallow ♪ 992 00:43:45,501 --> 00:43:50,338 ♪ The light on the stairs ♪ 993 00:43:50,422 --> 00:43:55,344 ♪ We'll do up my hair ♪ 994 00:43:55,427 --> 00:43:57,846 ♪ Come home ♪ 995 00:44:02,016 --> 00:44:03,851 - [Peter] She had a meeting in LA to go to, 996 00:44:03,936 --> 00:44:05,938 so she took a flight. 997 00:44:06,021 --> 00:44:10,192 It was literally one of the first times we'd been separate. 998 00:44:10,275 --> 00:44:13,362 (plane engines roar) 999 00:44:13,987 --> 00:44:16,489 - [Janis] Flew out to LA and I tried to strip away 1000 00:44:16,572 --> 00:44:18,992 everything that I had been taught I was 1001 00:44:19,076 --> 00:44:21,452 and become who I actually was. 1002 00:44:21,536 --> 00:44:22,788 And I started morphing then, 1003 00:44:22,871 --> 00:44:25,331 as you do in your late teens, early 20s, 1004 00:44:25,414 --> 00:44:27,708 into a different person physically. 1005 00:44:27,793 --> 00:44:29,585 All of a sudden, I had short hair and it was like, 1006 00:44:29,670 --> 00:44:32,047 "Oh, look at this, I'm a different human being." 1007 00:44:32,130 --> 00:44:35,132 - [Peter] Janis came back with the announcement 1008 00:44:35,217 --> 00:44:38,804 that she had fallen in love with another woman. 1009 00:44:38,887 --> 00:44:41,806 "She left me for another woman" is the joke I make. 1010 00:44:41,889 --> 00:44:44,059 And after I got over the shock, 1011 00:44:44,141 --> 00:44:46,728 I did nothing but encourage it. 1012 00:44:47,980 --> 00:44:49,313 - [Janis] So, I was attending this health club, 1013 00:44:49,398 --> 00:44:52,233 The Sanctuary, and I met this teacher, Claire, 1014 00:44:52,317 --> 00:44:53,902 and just fell head over heels with her. 1015 00:44:53,985 --> 00:44:55,320 (Janis Ian, "Light a Light") 1016 00:44:55,403 --> 00:45:00,324 ♪ Now am I humble, who once was proud ♪ 1017 00:45:00,409 --> 00:45:05,414 ♪ Now am I silent, who once was loud ♪ 1018 00:45:06,873 --> 00:45:11,878 ♪ Now am I waiting for the sound of your saying ♪ 1019 00:45:12,920 --> 00:45:14,715 ♪ Lover, am I coming ♪ 1020 00:45:14,797 --> 00:45:16,550 - [Janis] Claire was an earth mother. 1021 00:45:16,632 --> 00:45:19,760 She was all of the things that would be wonderful in your 1022 00:45:19,844 --> 00:45:21,804 first relationship as an adult. 1023 00:45:21,889 --> 00:45:23,931 Just as Peter was all the things that were wonderful 1024 00:45:24,016 --> 00:45:26,184 in my first relationship as an adolescent. 1025 00:45:26,268 --> 00:45:28,436 - [Peter] Although I didn't know how my life 1026 00:45:28,519 --> 00:45:29,938 would go from there, 1027 00:45:30,021 --> 00:45:32,481 it was kind of exciting that I would have 1028 00:45:32,565 --> 00:45:34,735 an independent life again. 1029 00:45:36,402 --> 00:45:38,030 - [Janis] He had a real eye for a portrait. 1030 00:45:38,112 --> 00:45:40,657 I mean, all of my photos from 1968, 1031 00:45:40,740 --> 00:45:43,827 right up through the '80s, was Peter. 1032 00:45:45,746 --> 00:45:49,248 I moved into a little place on Hollywood Boulevard. 1033 00:45:49,333 --> 00:45:50,583 Couldn't afford air conditioning. 1034 00:45:50,666 --> 00:45:52,668 I would go down to a store called Zodys in the summer 1035 00:45:52,753 --> 00:45:54,922 and sit and nurse a Coca-Cola for two hours 1036 00:45:55,005 --> 00:45:56,797 and sit in their air conditioning. 1037 00:45:56,882 --> 00:45:58,634 It was great because I had nothing to do 1038 00:45:58,717 --> 00:46:01,802 and no money to do it with, but write all day long. 1039 00:46:01,887 --> 00:46:03,931 - [Janey Street] She was writing songs and doing something 1040 00:46:04,014 --> 00:46:06,182 that was very special and people picked up on it. 1041 00:46:06,266 --> 00:46:08,018 Her and Claire came to our house in Woodstock 1042 00:46:08,101 --> 00:46:11,480 and stayed with us and Brooks Arthur came up, and Jean. 1043 00:46:11,563 --> 00:46:13,898 Jean Powell was the manager and they were gonna talk 1044 00:46:13,981 --> 00:46:15,275 about doing a record. 1045 00:46:15,358 --> 00:46:16,568 - [Brooks Arthur] Knowing Janis from '65 1046 00:46:16,652 --> 00:46:18,320 and "Society's Child", 1047 00:46:18,402 --> 00:46:22,114 we did groove back then and there's no reason in the world 1048 00:46:22,199 --> 00:46:24,201 we couldn't groove again, you know? 1049 00:46:24,284 --> 00:46:27,788 (Janis, "The Man You Are In Me") 1050 00:46:34,585 --> 00:46:39,590 ♪ I love the light, I love the changing season ♪ 1051 00:46:39,842 --> 00:46:44,847 ♪ I love without much thought to reason ♪ 1052 00:46:45,264 --> 00:46:50,143 ♪ I'd give it all if I could make you see ♪ 1053 00:46:50,226 --> 00:46:54,063 ♪ I love the man that you were meant to be ♪ 1054 00:46:54,146 --> 00:46:55,858 - [Barry Lazarowitz] I had been playing with 1055 00:46:55,940 --> 00:46:56,942 Janis for a bit. 1056 00:46:57,025 --> 00:46:59,027 Janis had started recording the "Stars" album. 1057 00:46:59,110 --> 00:47:02,739 We used to work at 914, which was Brooks' studio. 1058 00:47:02,822 --> 00:47:04,365 - [Janis] I would record in the mornings. 1059 00:47:04,449 --> 00:47:05,409 Melanie would come in after, 1060 00:47:05,492 --> 00:47:06,869 and then Springsteen would come in after. 1061 00:47:06,952 --> 00:47:09,496 So, the studio was running 24-7. 1062 00:47:09,579 --> 00:47:11,456 The more that I put together this album, 1063 00:47:11,539 --> 00:47:14,876 the more I realized I was tremendously excited. 1064 00:47:14,960 --> 00:47:19,882 ♪ I love the man who hides behind you ♪ 1065 00:47:19,965 --> 00:47:24,844 ♪ I love the shadow though it disappears ♪ 1066 00:47:24,927 --> 00:47:29,849 ♪ I love the afterglow reflected through the tears ♪ 1067 00:47:29,932 --> 00:47:34,521 ♪ I love the shadow in my tears ♪ 1068 00:47:34,605 --> 00:47:37,481 ♪ Ooh ♪ 1069 00:47:37,565 --> 00:47:42,112 ♪ I love the dreams you can't remember ♪ 1070 00:47:42,195 --> 00:47:43,947 - [Janis] Brooks was just at the height 1071 00:47:44,030 --> 00:47:45,699 of his engineering prowess. 1072 00:47:45,782 --> 00:47:48,327 Ron Frangipane at his arranging prowess. 1073 00:47:48,409 --> 00:47:50,579 And they believed in me when nobody else did. 1074 00:47:50,661 --> 00:47:53,289 - [Brooks] My wife Marilyn and I got a second mortgage 1075 00:47:53,373 --> 00:47:55,000 to pay studio bills. 1076 00:47:55,083 --> 00:47:56,585 We found a little bungalow for her 1077 00:47:56,668 --> 00:47:58,336 and her housemate, Claire. 1078 00:47:58,420 --> 00:48:01,380 And Claire attended the recordings like a studio groupie. 1079 00:48:01,465 --> 00:48:03,090 (Janis, "You've Got Me on a String") 1080 00:48:03,175 --> 00:48:04,592 ♪ You've ♪ 1081 00:48:04,675 --> 00:48:06,719 ♪ Got me on a string ♪ 1082 00:48:06,802 --> 00:48:07,637 - [Brooks] She'd come in with food, 1083 00:48:07,721 --> 00:48:09,431 making sure Janis was eating correctly, 1084 00:48:09,514 --> 00:48:11,516 and then they would primp and prop their hairs together, 1085 00:48:11,599 --> 00:48:12,351 you know what I mean? 1086 00:48:12,434 --> 00:48:15,811 They would fix up their faces and be chicks for a minute. 1087 00:48:15,896 --> 00:48:19,483 ♪ I'm holding on to no one ♪ 1088 00:48:21,443 --> 00:48:23,570 - [Brooks] That's something I'll always remember, you know? 1089 00:48:23,653 --> 00:48:25,239 "Move over, I have to go out and do a vocal." 1090 00:48:25,322 --> 00:48:27,157 "Yeah, but fix your hair. You gotta look right." 1091 00:48:27,240 --> 00:48:31,786 ♪ I would get down on my knees ♪ 1092 00:48:31,869 --> 00:48:34,831 - [Brooks] The guys envied and goggled over Claire, 1093 00:48:34,914 --> 00:48:37,583 and yet, Janis was the one who took her home, you know? 1094 00:48:37,668 --> 00:48:38,960 - [Lazarowitz] In those days, we were 1095 00:48:39,043 --> 00:48:40,711 all kind of progressive hippies, 1096 00:48:40,795 --> 00:48:43,923 you know, anything goes, everything's fine. 1097 00:48:44,007 --> 00:48:45,092 It was family. 1098 00:48:45,175 --> 00:48:48,010 (Instrumental interlude from Janis's "Dance With Me") 1099 00:48:51,849 --> 00:48:54,601 The first few tracks with Janis on "Stars", 1100 00:48:54,684 --> 00:48:58,563 we cut them as trios, just me and Janis and Richard Davis. 1101 00:48:58,646 --> 00:49:03,568 Probably one of the 10 greatest upright bass players ever. 1102 00:49:03,652 --> 00:49:07,405 When he would play with Janis, the music would just soar. 1103 00:49:07,489 --> 00:49:08,699 (Janis, "Dance With Me") 1104 00:49:08,782 --> 00:49:10,701 ♪ Come and dance, come and dance ♪ 1105 00:49:10,784 --> 00:49:13,871 ♪ I'm home from overseas ♪ 1106 00:49:13,954 --> 00:49:16,831 ♪ And I need your company ♪ 1107 00:49:16,914 --> 00:49:20,668 ♪ Celebrate the victory ♪ 1108 00:49:21,170 --> 00:49:23,963 - [Brooks] I had a meeting with my friend Charles Koppelman, 1109 00:49:24,047 --> 00:49:26,465 who was then the head of Columbia Records, and he said, 1110 00:49:26,550 --> 00:49:29,010 "What's Janis's deal? We love what we're hearing." 1111 00:49:29,385 --> 00:49:31,137 I said, "She needs a comeback. 1112 00:49:31,221 --> 00:49:32,889 Time hasn't been easy for her." 1113 00:49:32,972 --> 00:49:35,099 - [Janis] Charles Koppelman said that if I could go down 1114 00:49:35,184 --> 00:49:39,980 to the Columbia CBS convention and get 600 promotion people 1115 00:49:40,063 --> 00:49:41,273 to give me a standing ovation, 1116 00:49:41,356 --> 00:49:42,648 I could get a record contract. 1117 00:49:42,733 --> 00:49:45,943 So, I went down with Barry Lazarowitz and Richard Davis, 1118 00:49:46,027 --> 00:49:47,695 and we came out on stage. 1119 00:49:47,778 --> 00:49:49,489 (Janis Ian, "Without You") 1120 00:49:49,572 --> 00:49:52,117 ♪ I miss you, jealous lover ♪ 1121 00:49:52,201 --> 00:49:56,579 ♪ Won't you come on over to my side of town ♪ 1122 00:49:56,663 --> 00:49:58,456 ♪ I need you ♪ 1123 00:49:58,539 --> 00:49:59,750 - [Lazarowitz] Janis, standing there 1124 00:49:59,833 --> 00:50:01,585 with just an acoustic guitar. 1125 00:50:01,668 --> 00:50:05,422 You could hear a pin drop. It was just mesmerizing. 1126 00:50:05,505 --> 00:50:09,592 ♪ I see you, a world without end ♪ 1127 00:50:09,675 --> 00:50:14,347 ♪ Then I need you all over again ♪ 1128 00:50:14,431 --> 00:50:18,768 ♪ Without you, the sun doesn't shine ♪ 1129 00:50:18,851 --> 00:50:22,731 ♪ Tomorrow is blind ♪ 1130 00:50:22,813 --> 00:50:24,983 ♪ Without you ♪ 1131 00:50:25,067 --> 00:50:29,112 (audience cheers and applauds) 1132 00:50:29,570 --> 00:50:31,239 - [Janis] I got my standing ovation. 1133 00:50:31,322 --> 00:50:34,409 Then I got a record contract. 1134 00:50:34,492 --> 00:50:35,911 - [Alison Steele] That's Janis Ian. 1135 00:50:35,994 --> 00:50:39,539 Alison Steele, The Nightbird, WNEW-FM and the new groove, 1136 00:50:39,623 --> 00:50:42,166 and we fly many miles. 1137 00:50:42,251 --> 00:50:44,253 - [Brooks] The record came out and started to make it. 1138 00:50:44,335 --> 00:50:45,920 Alison Steele, The Nightbird, 1139 00:50:46,003 --> 00:50:47,965 went completely through the first side, 1140 00:50:48,047 --> 00:50:50,634 flipped the album over and played the complete album 1141 00:50:50,717 --> 00:50:53,804 on the second side, which is a miracle in those days. 1142 00:50:53,887 --> 00:50:57,014 And then, of course, Roberta Flack recorded "Jesse". 1143 00:50:57,099 --> 00:51:01,978 ♪ Hey, Jesse, your face in the place ♪ 1144 00:51:02,061 --> 00:51:06,275 ♪ Where we lay by the hearth ♪ 1145 00:51:06,358 --> 00:51:09,652 - [Powers] Roberta Flack was total royalty in the '70s. 1146 00:51:09,735 --> 00:51:11,195 She was at the top of every chart. 1147 00:51:11,280 --> 00:51:13,447 She was winning tons of Grammys. 1148 00:51:13,532 --> 00:51:15,742 If Roberta Flack was gonna cover your song, 1149 00:51:15,826 --> 00:51:16,994 that was gonna take you places. 1150 00:51:17,077 --> 00:51:18,411 (Cher singing "Stars") 1151 00:51:18,494 --> 00:51:23,500 ♪ I was never one for singing ♪ 1152 00:51:25,210 --> 00:51:28,297 ♪ What I really feel ♪ 1153 00:51:31,132 --> 00:51:34,677 - Cher recorded "Stars" itself, the title track. 1154 00:51:34,760 --> 00:51:36,889 - [Janis] Mel Torme covered it and Glenn Campbell. 1155 00:51:36,972 --> 00:51:40,224 Just this amazing, wide group of artists. 1156 00:51:40,309 --> 00:51:41,684 (Nina Simone singing "Stars") 1157 00:51:41,768 --> 00:51:44,103 ♪ Stars, they come and go ♪ 1158 00:51:44,188 --> 00:51:46,190 ♪ They come fast, they come slow ♪ 1159 00:51:46,273 --> 00:51:51,195 ♪ They go like the last light of the sun, all in a blaze ♪ 1160 00:51:51,277 --> 00:51:55,032 ♪ And all you see is glory ♪ 1161 00:51:55,114 --> 00:51:56,867 - [Janis] Somehow between the age of 10 and 14, 1162 00:51:56,949 --> 00:52:00,077 and I don't know how, I decided that I was going to be 1163 00:52:00,161 --> 00:52:02,371 a performative songwriter and a player. 1164 00:52:02,456 --> 00:52:06,376 And I knew that I wanted to record and I wanted to arrange. 1165 00:52:06,460 --> 00:52:08,586 And the only person doing all of them 1166 00:52:08,670 --> 00:52:10,588 that I could find was Nina Simone. 1167 00:52:10,672 --> 00:52:15,594 ♪ Some make it when they're young ♪ 1168 00:52:15,677 --> 00:52:20,139 ♪ Before the world has done its dirty job ♪ 1169 00:52:21,474 --> 00:52:22,226 - [Powers] Janis may not have been 1170 00:52:22,309 --> 00:52:23,726 thinking about Nina Simone 1171 00:52:23,809 --> 00:52:26,646 when she wrote "Stars", but you certainly can see how 1172 00:52:26,730 --> 00:52:30,275 the lyrics to that song apply to Nina Simone's life. 1173 00:52:30,358 --> 00:52:34,320 She was one of the greatest geniuses popular music ever saw, 1174 00:52:34,403 --> 00:52:37,449 but also someone who suffered so much in her life, 1175 00:52:37,532 --> 00:52:38,574 and in her art. 1176 00:52:38,659 --> 00:52:43,579 ♪ Time to tell my story ♪ 1177 00:52:43,664 --> 00:52:48,668 ♪ Janis Ian told it very well ♪ 1178 00:52:51,003 --> 00:52:54,340 ♪ Janis Joplin told it even better ♪ 1179 00:52:54,423 --> 00:52:55,884 - [Janis] It is the thrill of a lifetime 1180 00:52:55,967 --> 00:52:58,262 to have a hero perform your work. 1181 00:52:58,344 --> 00:53:01,556 And even then, (chuckles) she does such a Nina with it. 1182 00:53:01,639 --> 00:53:05,811 - [Powers] For a very young woman to get almost eaten up by 1183 00:53:07,019 --> 00:53:09,438 the same machine that was afflicting her 1184 00:53:09,523 --> 00:53:10,940 and causing her pain, 1185 00:53:11,023 --> 00:53:12,860 the identification must have been instant. 1186 00:53:14,570 --> 00:53:17,030 - [Janis] Sometime between the "Stars" album coming out 1187 00:53:17,114 --> 00:53:18,907 and being able to go on tour, 1188 00:53:18,990 --> 00:53:22,159 I had no money and I had nowhere to live. 1189 00:53:22,244 --> 00:53:24,036 So Claire and I moved in with my mom, 1190 00:53:24,121 --> 00:53:27,206 until I could actually start earning enough on the road 1191 00:53:27,291 --> 00:53:29,333 to get a place of our own. 1192 00:53:29,418 --> 00:53:31,420 And it was hard, I mean, it's hard going back home 1193 00:53:31,503 --> 00:53:34,797 in your 20s, and in my day, it was shameful. 1194 00:53:35,465 --> 00:53:39,135 So, one of the things that I did to feel like I was 1195 00:53:39,219 --> 00:53:42,722 carrying my weight was to write every day. 1196 00:53:44,056 --> 00:53:45,141 I was sitting at my mom's, 1197 00:53:45,224 --> 00:53:47,518 and I was reading the New York Times Sunday Magazine. 1198 00:53:47,603 --> 00:53:50,313 There was an article by a woman who talked about 1199 00:53:50,396 --> 00:53:53,442 when she was 18 and she had her coming out debutante ball, 1200 00:53:53,525 --> 00:53:55,860 and as it turned out, it was a hard lesson. 1201 00:53:55,943 --> 00:53:59,697 (gentle acoustic guitar music) 1202 00:53:59,780 --> 00:54:03,159 I was playing that (hums melody) on the guitar, 1203 00:54:03,242 --> 00:54:05,454 and then I thought, "I've learned the truth." 1204 00:54:05,536 --> 00:54:07,873 It's literally the first line of the article. 1205 00:54:07,956 --> 00:54:09,333 But 18 didn't scan, so it became 17. (laughs) 1206 00:54:09,416 --> 00:54:11,251 (Janis Ian, "At Seventeen") 1207 00:54:11,335 --> 00:54:15,672 ♪ I learned the truth at 17 ♪ 1208 00:54:15,755 --> 00:54:19,675 ♪ That love was meant for beauty queens ♪ 1209 00:54:19,760 --> 00:54:24,097 ♪ And high school girls with clear-skinned smiles ♪ 1210 00:54:24,181 --> 00:54:26,891 ♪ Who married young and then retired ♪ 1211 00:54:26,974 --> 00:54:29,478 (paper tears) 1212 00:54:30,728 --> 00:54:35,442 ♪ The valentines I never knew ♪ 1213 00:54:35,525 --> 00:54:39,987 ♪ The Friday night charades of youth ♪ 1214 00:54:40,405 --> 00:54:44,284 ♪ Were spent on one more beautiful ♪ 1215 00:54:44,367 --> 00:54:48,664 ♪ At 17, I learned the truth ♪ 1216 00:54:48,746 --> 00:54:50,998 [Janis] I wrote that first verse and then put it in the drawer 1217 00:54:51,083 --> 00:54:52,543 'cause it was scary. 1218 00:54:52,626 --> 00:54:55,586 Came back to it a month later, wrote the second verse, 1219 00:54:55,670 --> 00:54:59,257 and then I called Brooks Arthur at 914. 1220 00:54:59,340 --> 00:55:01,760 - [Brooks] Janis and I got together, 1221 00:55:01,844 --> 00:55:03,719 and professionals in the studio 1222 00:55:03,804 --> 00:55:05,847 all suddenly quieted down 1223 00:55:05,931 --> 00:55:10,643 as Janis showed us the first 32 bars of "At Seventeen". 1224 00:55:10,726 --> 00:55:13,313 When the song was over, there was a gentle ripple 1225 00:55:13,396 --> 00:55:15,648 of applause from the pros in the studio, 1226 00:55:15,731 --> 00:55:17,025 the pros in the office, 1227 00:55:17,108 --> 00:55:19,527 and the pros coming out of the bathroom, 1228 00:55:19,610 --> 00:55:23,407 and the pros who heard the buzz from the football field, 1229 00:55:23,489 --> 00:55:26,659 they all came inside, there must've been 15 or 18 people. 1230 00:55:26,742 --> 00:55:28,452 This was my litmus test. 1231 00:55:28,536 --> 00:55:31,331 My litmus test, and the first time I realized 1232 00:55:31,414 --> 00:55:32,248 that Janis had a smash. 1233 00:55:35,835 --> 00:55:37,045 (sound of door opening) 1234 00:55:37,128 --> 00:55:39,297 - [Janis] We were in the studio, and I brought in a kid, 1235 00:55:39,380 --> 00:55:42,259 David Snider, who'd never been in the studio before, 1236 00:55:42,342 --> 00:55:44,052 because I wanted his energy. 1237 00:55:44,135 --> 00:55:45,804 And the guitarist, 1238 00:55:45,887 --> 00:55:47,639 who was supposed to be the lead guitarist, 1239 00:55:47,722 --> 00:55:51,059 kept making rude comments about David, and at David, 1240 00:55:51,309 --> 00:55:52,059 because, you know, he wasn't a professional, 1241 00:55:52,143 --> 00:55:53,644 he wasn't a real musician, 1242 00:55:53,728 --> 00:55:55,105 he wasn't in the union. 1243 00:55:55,188 --> 00:55:56,398 - [David Snider] She stood up for me. 1244 00:55:56,481 --> 00:55:58,567 She said, "Well, I like the way he plays, 1245 00:55:58,650 --> 00:56:00,652 and I like the way he makes my music sound, 1246 00:56:00,735 --> 00:56:03,280 and I like the energy he's bringing to my music, 1247 00:56:03,362 --> 00:56:05,699 and if you don't like it, there's the door." 1248 00:56:05,782 --> 00:56:08,577 It was really nice for her to stand up for me like that. 1249 00:56:08,659 --> 00:56:09,869 - [Janis] Brooks backed me up, 1250 00:56:09,952 --> 00:56:12,121 the arranger Ron Frangipane backed me up, 1251 00:56:12,206 --> 00:56:13,664 and everybody shut up, 1252 00:56:13,748 --> 00:56:18,003 and we got on with the business of making a record. 1253 00:56:20,130 --> 00:56:22,715 - [Brooks] It's a very hard phenomenon to explain. 1254 00:56:22,798 --> 00:56:24,550 We'd get into our seats at the studio 1255 00:56:24,635 --> 00:56:28,137 and Janis would get behind the guitar mic and the vocal mic. 1256 00:56:28,222 --> 00:56:30,224 Ronnie Frangipane would count it off, 1257 00:56:30,306 --> 00:56:33,643 and as if by some superpower, or by magic, 1258 00:56:33,726 --> 00:56:36,771 in my mind's eye, we would lift off. 1259 00:56:36,855 --> 00:56:38,565 (Janis Ian, "When the Party's Over") 1260 00:56:38,648 --> 00:56:41,150 ♪ Would you like to sing my song ♪ 1261 00:56:41,235 --> 00:56:45,989 ♪ Would you like to learn to love me best of all ♪ 1262 00:56:47,365 --> 00:56:50,661 - [Snider] I watched Brooks and Janis interacting 1263 00:56:50,744 --> 00:56:53,664 when they were mixing and also recording. 1264 00:56:53,746 --> 00:56:55,206 Brooks was a great producer. 1265 00:56:55,289 --> 00:56:57,291 He knew how to get the best out of musicians, 1266 00:56:57,376 --> 00:56:58,543 but at the same time, 1267 00:56:58,626 --> 00:57:01,380 you could see that he respected her genius. 1268 00:57:01,463 --> 00:57:05,717 ♪ I can teach you how to sing and dance ♪ 1269 00:57:05,800 --> 00:57:09,762 ♪ With a song and dance routine ♪ 1270 00:57:09,847 --> 00:57:13,851 ♪ And when the party's over ♪ 1271 00:57:13,934 --> 00:57:17,728 ♪ You can fall in love with me ♪ 1272 00:57:17,813 --> 00:57:19,690 - [Brooks] She and I would walk through 1273 00:57:19,773 --> 00:57:21,358 every bar, every measure, 1274 00:57:21,440 --> 00:57:23,693 and yes, my hands were on the faders, 1275 00:57:23,777 --> 00:57:25,737 and I'll take some credit for some of the sound, 1276 00:57:25,820 --> 00:57:28,197 but it was really all about her performance. 1277 00:57:28,282 --> 00:57:29,115 (Janis Ian, "In the Winter") 1278 00:57:29,199 --> 00:57:31,784 ♪ There's always radio ♪ 1279 00:57:31,869 --> 00:57:35,746 ♪ And for a dime I can talk to God ♪ 1280 00:57:35,831 --> 00:57:39,083 ♪ Dial-a-Prayer, are you there ♪ 1281 00:57:39,168 --> 00:57:40,751 - [Brooks] There was some kind of 1282 00:57:40,835 --> 00:57:42,795 crazy chemistry between us. 1283 00:57:42,880 --> 00:57:45,507 A kind of studio love story. 1284 00:57:45,590 --> 00:57:46,967 Music only, though. 1285 00:57:47,050 --> 00:57:49,927 ♪ Extra blankets for the cold ♪ 1286 00:57:50,012 --> 00:57:53,181 ♪ Fix the heater getting old ♪ 1287 00:57:53,264 --> 00:57:55,684 ♪ I am wiser now, you know ♪ 1288 00:57:55,766 --> 00:57:58,394 - [Janis] Brooks taught me to sing on a microphone. 1289 00:57:58,478 --> 00:58:00,688 Brooks taught me how to be in the studio, 1290 00:58:00,771 --> 00:58:03,442 just like Shadow taught me how to be with musicians. 1291 00:58:03,525 --> 00:58:05,985 And then it became this great circular thing. 1292 00:58:06,068 --> 00:58:07,905 - [Brooks] The net result is art. 1293 00:58:07,987 --> 00:58:09,822 ♪ Ooh ♪ 1294 00:58:14,952 --> 00:58:19,958 ("In The Winter" crescendos) 1295 00:58:21,543 --> 00:58:25,088 - [Brooks] This is one of the reels from 1974. 1296 00:58:25,172 --> 00:58:27,757 The album was called "Watercolors", 1297 00:58:27,840 --> 00:58:29,967 which became "Between the Lines". 1298 00:58:30,052 --> 00:58:34,264 I can't say the rest is history, but history was being made. 1299 00:58:34,347 --> 00:58:38,018 Irwin Segelstein was then the president of Columbia Records. 1300 00:58:38,101 --> 00:58:40,686 He had a daughter who was a college-level daughter. 1301 00:58:40,771 --> 00:58:42,563 She told her dad to listen to this song 1302 00:58:42,648 --> 00:58:44,815 called "At Seventeen", she thinks that's a hit, 1303 00:58:44,900 --> 00:58:47,527 and Irwin Segelstein called Charles Koppelman. 1304 00:58:47,610 --> 00:58:49,320 Charles Koppelman called us, 1305 00:58:49,403 --> 00:58:51,864 and said that he's gonna release "At Seventeen". 1306 00:58:51,949 --> 00:58:53,909 - [Janis] We were facing a music industry with 1307 00:58:53,992 --> 00:58:56,744 "At Seventeen" that said "It's gotta be under three minutes. 1308 00:58:56,827 --> 00:58:58,664 This is four and a half. It won't work. 1309 00:58:58,746 --> 00:59:01,416 It's gotta be up-tempo. We can't play it in drive time." 1310 00:59:01,500 --> 00:59:03,918 So, we sent copies of that record, 1311 00:59:04,001 --> 00:59:07,130 not to the program directors at radio, but to their wives. 1312 00:59:07,213 --> 00:59:09,090 Every radio station I visited, 1313 00:59:09,173 --> 00:59:11,342 I made sure that I honed in on the women in the station, 1314 00:59:11,425 --> 00:59:13,554 the secretaries at the time. 1315 00:59:13,637 --> 00:59:15,347 (plane engines roar) 1316 00:59:15,429 --> 00:59:17,306 - [Brooks] I got a job offer in LA to do 1317 00:59:17,391 --> 00:59:19,268 an album with Art Garfunkel. 1318 00:59:19,351 --> 00:59:21,728 I was working at this recording studio right here, 1319 00:59:21,811 --> 00:59:23,730 Village Recorders here in West LA, 1320 00:59:23,813 --> 00:59:25,356 and Art Garfunkel told me, 1321 00:59:25,440 --> 00:59:27,358 "You're in your final days of poverty. 1322 00:59:27,442 --> 00:59:30,237 Your single 'At Seventeen' is lighting up the charts." 1323 00:59:30,320 --> 00:59:32,655 (upbeat music) 1324 00:59:32,739 --> 00:59:34,449 I would drive on the Coast Highway, 1325 00:59:34,532 --> 00:59:38,161 to let some air out of my head and I would click onto KNXFM 1326 00:59:38,244 --> 00:59:40,163 and I'd be hearing "At Seventeen". 1327 00:59:40,246 --> 00:59:42,456 I'd move to another station, I'd hear "At Seventeen", 1328 00:59:42,541 --> 00:59:45,126 and another spot, all within the breadth of five 1329 00:59:45,210 --> 00:59:49,547 or 10 minutes, I'd hear it at four different radio stations. 1330 00:59:49,630 --> 00:59:52,134 - [Johhny Carson] When Janis Ian was about 15 years old, 1331 00:59:52,217 --> 00:59:53,092 she had an enormous success 1332 00:59:53,177 --> 00:59:55,012 with a song called "Society's Child". 1333 00:59:55,094 --> 00:59:58,139 - [Janis] Carson, at the time, was undisputed king. 1334 00:59:58,222 --> 00:59:59,182 - [Carson] She recorded this album 1335 00:59:59,266 --> 01:00:00,434 called "Between the Lines". 1336 01:00:00,516 --> 01:00:02,311 - [Janis] If you were on Carson, it was like you reached 1337 01:00:02,393 --> 01:00:05,146 this gigantic audience and it put you on the map. 1338 01:00:05,230 --> 01:00:07,106 - [Carson] Would you welcome, please, Janis Ian? 1339 01:00:07,190 --> 01:00:08,400 (audience applauds) 1340 01:00:08,483 --> 01:00:11,903 (Janis Ian, "At Seventeen") 1341 01:00:11,987 --> 01:00:13,322 - [Celine Dion] I always hated school, 1342 01:00:13,405 --> 01:00:15,157 because I didn't fit in. 1343 01:00:15,239 --> 01:00:17,701 I didn't look pretty. I didn't feel pretty. 1344 01:00:17,784 --> 01:00:20,077 And I think that's why... 1345 01:00:20,161 --> 01:00:23,831 [Celine] ♪ I learned the truth at 17 ♪ 1346 01:00:23,916 --> 01:00:27,628 [Janis] ♪ I learned the truth at 17 ♪ 1347 01:00:27,710 --> 01:00:30,963 - [Laurie Metcalf] I played the hell out of that record. 1348 01:00:31,923 --> 01:00:34,134 It was so specific 1349 01:00:34,217 --> 01:00:35,885 and so relevant 1350 01:00:35,969 --> 01:00:38,054 for generations of women. 1351 01:00:38,972 --> 01:00:40,431 To this day, 1352 01:00:40,516 --> 01:00:43,351 it affects me the same way, as when I first heard it. 1353 01:00:43,434 --> 01:00:47,856 ♪ And the rich-relationed hometown queen ♪ 1354 01:00:47,940 --> 01:00:50,817 ♪ Marries into what she needs ♪ 1355 01:00:50,900 --> 01:00:52,152 - [Jean Smart] It's not just she's talking 1356 01:00:52,235 --> 01:00:54,028 about the pain of adolescence, 1357 01:00:54,112 --> 01:00:56,030 and the pain of feeling like an ugly duckling, 1358 01:00:56,114 --> 01:00:59,492 and the pain of not being in the in-crowd, or whatever. 1359 01:00:59,576 --> 01:01:01,494 It's also about being the tall, blonde, 1360 01:01:01,577 --> 01:01:02,829 blue-eyed cheerleader. 1361 01:01:02,913 --> 01:01:07,000 ♪ Remember those who win the game ♪ 1362 01:01:07,083 --> 01:01:09,878 ♪ Lose the love they sought to gain ♪ 1363 01:01:09,961 --> 01:01:11,380 - [Smart] I was the cheerleader. (chuckles) 1364 01:01:11,463 --> 01:01:15,007 I was the girl that Janis sang about in "At Seventeen". 1365 01:01:15,092 --> 01:01:18,344 I was the good girl who was dating the bad boy. (chuckles) 1366 01:01:18,427 --> 01:01:23,432 ♪ Their small-town eyes will gape at you in dull surprise ♪ 1367 01:01:24,768 --> 01:01:26,394 ♪ When payment due ♪ 1368 01:01:26,478 --> 01:01:29,940 - [Snider] I don't care if you're super handsome, beautiful, 1369 01:01:30,023 --> 01:01:32,860 if you're smart, or you're dumb. 1370 01:01:32,943 --> 01:01:37,197 Everybody feels like a piece of shit, in some kind of way. 1371 01:01:37,280 --> 01:01:39,449 - [James Reed] I was a very weirdo kid 1372 01:01:39,532 --> 01:01:40,449 growing up in the '80s and '90s 1373 01:01:40,534 --> 01:01:44,121 in the Midwest and all of my peers were listening to Nirvana 1374 01:01:44,204 --> 01:01:46,539 and Guns N' Roses and I, for some reason, 1375 01:01:46,623 --> 01:01:49,041 was this little sad closeted kid who was like listening 1376 01:01:49,126 --> 01:01:51,753 to Joan Baez and Phil Ochs and Janis Ian by candlelight. 1377 01:01:51,836 --> 01:01:54,840 (James chuckles) 1378 01:01:54,922 --> 01:01:56,507 The line that always made me laugh, 1379 01:01:56,592 --> 01:01:59,385 because if you didn't laugh, you would almost cry, 1380 01:01:59,469 --> 01:02:03,599 was the line, "To those whose names were never called, 1381 01:02:03,681 --> 01:02:05,349 when choosing sides for basketball." 1382 01:02:05,434 --> 01:02:09,313 ♪ And those whose names were never called ♪ 1383 01:02:09,396 --> 01:02:12,648 ♪ When choosing sides for basketball ♪ 1384 01:02:12,733 --> 01:02:17,653 - [Reed] I was never picked (chuckles) for any sports team. 1385 01:02:17,737 --> 01:02:21,449 ♪ When dreams were all they gave for free ♪ 1386 01:02:21,532 --> 01:02:25,621 ♪ To ugly duckling girls like me ♪ 1387 01:02:26,829 --> 01:02:28,956 - [Powers] I mean, I was that ugly duckling girl, 1388 01:02:29,041 --> 01:02:32,168 and so the song hit me pretty hard. 1389 01:02:32,251 --> 01:02:35,672 ♪ Inventing lovers on the phone ♪ 1390 01:02:35,755 --> 01:02:38,342 - [Powers] The fact that Janis had such a huge hit, 1391 01:02:38,425 --> 01:02:42,387 and such an iconic impact with that song, 1392 01:02:42,471 --> 01:02:45,974 I think speaks to its universal relevance. 1393 01:02:47,016 --> 01:02:50,646 (audience cheers and applauds) 1394 01:02:52,731 --> 01:02:54,815 - [Janis] When the Grammy announcements came out in '76 1395 01:02:54,900 --> 01:02:57,402 for the records that had been released in '75, 1396 01:02:57,485 --> 01:02:59,362 I had five nominations. 1397 01:02:59,445 --> 01:03:00,489 It was amazing. 1398 01:03:00,572 --> 01:03:02,990 - Best Engineering Non-Classical, "Between the Lines", 1399 01:03:03,074 --> 01:03:06,119 Brooks Arthur, Larry Alexander and Russ Payne. 1400 01:03:06,202 --> 01:03:08,496 - [Brooks] I won a Grammy for Best Engineered Album. 1401 01:03:09,539 --> 01:03:11,916 Janis was up for Best Female Vocalist. 1402 01:03:12,000 --> 01:03:13,793 And Lily Tomlin comes walking out, 1403 01:03:13,876 --> 01:03:15,628 envelope in hand, and says, 1404 01:03:15,711 --> 01:03:18,632 - [Tomlin] And the winner is, "At Seventeen", Janis Ian. 1405 01:03:18,715 --> 01:03:20,842 (audience cheers and applauds) 1406 01:03:20,925 --> 01:03:23,804 (House orchestra plays "At Seventeen") 1407 01:03:23,887 --> 01:03:26,472 - [Brooks] It was just an all-time high. 1408 01:03:26,556 --> 01:03:27,306 We did it. 1409 01:03:27,391 --> 01:03:28,599 She did it. 1410 01:03:28,684 --> 01:03:31,311 And Janis looked so beautiful that night. 1411 01:03:31,394 --> 01:03:34,146 - [Janis] Thank you. It's been a long time. 1412 01:03:34,231 --> 01:03:35,356 Thank you. 1413 01:03:35,440 --> 01:03:37,985 - [Tomlin] Most people can't bear to have a platform, 1414 01:03:38,068 --> 01:03:40,112 and not use it in some way. 1415 01:03:40,195 --> 01:03:43,447 But she just said, "It's been a while." 1416 01:03:44,782 --> 01:03:47,369 - [Brooks] The album was a smash and the Grammys were won, 1417 01:03:47,452 --> 01:03:49,746 and Janis was at the top of her game. 1418 01:03:49,829 --> 01:03:51,414 (Janis Ian, "Bright Lights and Promises") 1419 01:03:51,498 --> 01:03:54,793 ♪ Bright lights and promises ♪ 1420 01:03:54,876 --> 01:03:58,672 ♪ Ain't that what it's for ♪ 1421 01:03:58,755 --> 01:04:00,298 - [Janis] The last three years have been great, 1422 01:04:00,382 --> 01:04:02,342 'cause I've been doing what I want to do, 1423 01:04:02,425 --> 01:04:03,217 how I want to do it, 1424 01:04:03,302 --> 01:04:05,721 with people that I really enjoy doing it with. 1425 01:04:05,804 --> 01:04:07,389 I mean, you can't ask any more than that. 1426 01:04:07,472 --> 01:04:12,393 ♪ I'm gold lame and diamonds ♪ 1427 01:04:12,476 --> 01:04:17,481 ♪ Even if my gold is worn ♪ 1428 01:04:18,983 --> 01:04:21,820 ♪ Honey, can you show ♪ 1429 01:04:21,903 --> 01:04:24,072 ♪ Me more ♪ 1430 01:04:26,115 --> 01:04:28,619 - [Lazarowitz] Going from a coffeehouse to, you know, 1431 01:04:28,702 --> 01:04:29,869 thousands of seats, 1432 01:04:29,952 --> 01:04:32,331 it was just a fabulous experience. 1433 01:04:32,414 --> 01:04:35,250 (audience applauds) 1434 01:04:35,333 --> 01:04:37,710 - [Brooks] The Janis Ian world was awaiting 1435 01:04:37,793 --> 01:04:38,670 the next heartbeat. 1436 01:04:38,753 --> 01:04:41,547 I kept on lobbying for another "At Seventeen", 1437 01:04:41,632 --> 01:04:43,257 a song that speaks for those 1438 01:04:43,342 --> 01:04:45,677 who can't quite speak for themselves. 1439 01:04:45,760 --> 01:04:48,514 I needed another one of those to launch the third album, 1440 01:04:48,597 --> 01:04:50,806 "Aftertones", and I was kind of annoyed 1441 01:04:50,891 --> 01:04:52,309 that it wasn't coming. 1442 01:04:52,391 --> 01:04:54,519 - [Janis] I make records and I do concerts and I write, 1443 01:04:54,603 --> 01:04:56,271 and they're three very separate things. 1444 01:04:56,355 --> 01:04:58,773 There's no way to duplicate a record in a concert, 1445 01:04:58,856 --> 01:04:59,690 for instance. 1446 01:04:59,775 --> 01:05:01,943 There's no way to write while you're doing concerts. 1447 01:05:02,027 --> 01:05:03,402 - [Baez] There are a few songwriters 1448 01:05:03,487 --> 01:05:05,697 who can just crank this stuff out. 1449 01:05:05,780 --> 01:05:10,786 Most of us needed time to make songs not all sound the same. 1450 01:05:11,036 --> 01:05:14,581 You cannot write, in my opinion, a hit, 1451 01:05:14,664 --> 01:05:16,666 just 'cause you're clever enough to write a hit. 1452 01:05:16,750 --> 01:05:18,501 It has to come from somewhere deep. 1453 01:05:18,585 --> 01:05:20,045 - [Lazarowitz] There were some really wonderful 1454 01:05:20,128 --> 01:05:21,672 pieces on "Aftertones". 1455 01:05:25,634 --> 01:05:27,010 (Janis Ian, "Love is Blind") 1456 01:05:27,094 --> 01:05:29,054 ♪ Love is blind ♪ 1457 01:05:29,137 --> 01:05:32,974 ♪ How will I remember ♪ 1458 01:05:33,057 --> 01:05:38,021 ♪ In the heat of summer pleasure winter fades ♪ 1459 01:05:38,480 --> 01:05:43,360 ♪ How long will it take before I can't remember ♪ 1460 01:05:43,443 --> 01:05:47,072 ♪ Memories I should forget ♪ 1461 01:05:47,155 --> 01:05:51,994 ♪ I've been burning since the day we met ♪ 1462 01:05:52,077 --> 01:05:54,371 - [Lazarowitz] Songs like "Love Is Blind" 1463 01:05:54,454 --> 01:05:56,289 and "Boy I Really Tied One On", 1464 01:05:57,206 --> 01:05:59,960 they're great songs, they're great tracks. 1465 01:06:00,043 --> 01:06:03,213 - [Brooks] The songs that she was writing were all great, 1466 01:06:03,297 --> 01:06:08,217 but some songs are drop-dead unbelievably magnificent. 1467 01:06:08,302 --> 01:06:10,387 I would've waited until one more song was ready, 1468 01:06:10,469 --> 01:06:12,931 but Columbia wanted the record out, 1469 01:06:13,014 --> 01:06:15,184 and if you don't come through, 1470 01:06:15,266 --> 01:06:17,436 the artist's not guilty, the producer's guilty. 1471 01:06:17,518 --> 01:06:20,313 So, I felt it was my business to speak up. 1472 01:06:20,396 --> 01:06:25,318 ♪ In the morning, waking to the sound of weeping ♪ 1473 01:06:25,402 --> 01:06:29,030 ♪ Someone else should weep for me ♪ 1474 01:06:29,114 --> 01:06:30,324 - [Brooks] In Japan, 1475 01:06:30,407 --> 01:06:33,409 "Love is Blind" was number one for a year. 1476 01:06:33,492 --> 01:06:36,954 But though the album went gold, I labeled it "cold gold", 1477 01:06:37,039 --> 01:06:38,873 'cause coming off of "Between the Lines", 1478 01:06:38,956 --> 01:06:41,793 which was multi-platinum, it was rough waters. 1479 01:06:41,876 --> 01:06:43,085 - [Janis] I knew that album wasn't ready. 1480 01:06:43,170 --> 01:06:44,505 I knew I wasn't ready. 1481 01:06:44,588 --> 01:06:46,215 I knew it was not an appropriate follow-up 1482 01:06:46,297 --> 01:06:47,798 to "Between the Lines". 1483 01:06:47,882 --> 01:06:50,302 Brooks also knew it. My manager knew it. 1484 01:06:50,385 --> 01:06:52,637 But everybody bowed to CBS's need 1485 01:06:52,721 --> 01:06:54,972 for the fourth quarter, for the stockholders. 1486 01:06:55,056 --> 01:06:59,436 ♪ In the heat of summer pleasure ♪ 1487 01:06:59,519 --> 01:07:02,105 ♪ Winter fades ♪ 1488 01:07:07,360 --> 01:07:09,612 - [Janis] Billy Joel and myself and Bruce Springsteen 1489 01:07:09,695 --> 01:07:11,697 were three artists close to the same age, 1490 01:07:11,782 --> 01:07:13,449 all on the same record label. 1491 01:07:13,534 --> 01:07:16,036 And so it's natural for the record label to try 1492 01:07:16,119 --> 01:07:19,081 and get us all to work together as much as possible. 1493 01:07:19,164 --> 01:07:22,751 Billy opened for Janis at the Universal Amphitheater in LA. 1494 01:07:22,835 --> 01:07:24,503 They hadn't covered the roof yet, 1495 01:07:24,585 --> 01:07:25,963 so it was open and it was beautiful. 1496 01:07:26,045 --> 01:07:27,505 It was like singing to the gods, 1497 01:07:27,588 --> 01:07:28,340 for goodness sakes, you know? 1498 01:07:28,422 --> 01:07:30,217 (Billy Joel, "Piano Man") 1499 01:07:30,300 --> 01:07:33,762 ♪ Sing us a song, you're the piano man ♪ 1500 01:07:33,846 --> 01:07:36,849 ♪ Oh, sing us a song tonight ♪ 1501 01:07:36,931 --> 01:07:40,059 - [Janis] Billy opened the show and he slayed! 1502 01:07:40,143 --> 01:07:42,019 He was just amazing! 1503 01:07:42,103 --> 01:07:43,063 - [Brooks] He was Billy Joel, man. 1504 01:07:43,146 --> 01:07:45,606 He played "Piano Man" and he played "Italian Restaurant", 1505 01:07:45,690 --> 01:07:47,150 and the place lit up, it was incredible. 1506 01:07:47,233 --> 01:07:48,068 (harmonica solo) 1507 01:07:50,737 --> 01:07:52,322 Janis followed Billy, 1508 01:07:52,405 --> 01:07:54,282 but she wasn't communicating with the audience. 1509 01:07:54,365 --> 01:07:57,244 She was tuning the piano a lot and kept her head down, 1510 01:07:57,327 --> 01:07:59,036 and she had a beautiful smile, 1511 01:07:59,121 --> 01:08:00,539 but she didn't show that beautiful smile 1512 01:08:00,621 --> 01:08:01,873 that particular night. 1513 01:08:01,956 --> 01:08:05,710 The contrast between Billy and Janis was night and day. 1514 01:08:05,793 --> 01:08:07,378 - [Janis] The show was terrible. 1515 01:08:07,461 --> 01:08:09,547 That day, I swore to myself that 1516 01:08:09,630 --> 01:08:11,925 I would never be unprepared for a show again. 1517 01:08:12,009 --> 01:08:13,342 Didn't matter how tired I was, 1518 01:08:13,427 --> 01:08:15,429 didn't matter how hard it was, 1519 01:08:15,512 --> 01:08:18,347 I would never turn in that bad a show, ever. 1520 01:08:18,431 --> 01:08:19,975 - [Brooks] A lot of people started to leave 1521 01:08:20,057 --> 01:08:21,350 and as they were leaving, 1522 01:08:21,435 --> 01:08:25,646 they'd be singing a Billie Joel tune, which broke my heart, 1523 01:08:25,730 --> 01:08:29,234 'cause it was Janis' night to win. 1524 01:08:29,318 --> 01:08:32,320 At the end of the show, I told her and Jean 1525 01:08:32,404 --> 01:08:33,988 that Billy blew you off stage, 1526 01:08:34,072 --> 01:08:35,573 and you don't want to let that happen. 1527 01:08:35,657 --> 01:08:37,451 You gotta involve your audience. 1528 01:08:37,533 --> 01:08:39,619 They made you platinum and multi-platinum, 1529 01:08:39,703 --> 01:08:42,538 and you just gotta be part of that. 1530 01:08:42,622 --> 01:08:44,291 Of course, they didn't like what I said, 1531 01:08:44,373 --> 01:08:48,878 and Janis and I got together and we talked it through. 1532 01:08:49,837 --> 01:08:52,591 - [Janis] Brooks was a genius engineer. Absolute genius. 1533 01:08:52,673 --> 01:08:54,676 And I don't use that word lightly. 1534 01:08:54,760 --> 01:08:58,514 But we talked and I said, "Man, you've got two choices. 1535 01:08:58,596 --> 01:09:00,806 You can produce people like me, 1536 01:09:00,890 --> 01:09:02,935 people who are not going to be the flavor of the month, 1537 01:09:03,018 --> 01:09:04,060 who may not have hits, 1538 01:09:04,144 --> 01:09:06,479 but who will give you street credibility. 1539 01:09:06,563 --> 01:09:10,108 Or you can go to LA and you can produce those other people." 1540 01:09:10,192 --> 01:09:11,150 And I can't fault him for it. 1541 01:09:11,234 --> 01:09:13,569 He went to LA and produced those other people. 1542 01:09:13,654 --> 01:09:16,489 But to me, the moment he took his hands off the board, 1543 01:09:16,573 --> 01:09:19,618 he was only half of what he'd been. 1544 01:09:19,701 --> 01:09:21,244 - [Brooks] It took some time, it took some doing, 1545 01:09:21,328 --> 01:09:23,913 but Janis and I repaired our differences. 1546 01:09:23,997 --> 01:09:27,501 Time heals everything, so to speak. 1547 01:09:27,583 --> 01:09:29,752 - [Peter Cunningham] Janis and I were no longer together, 1548 01:09:29,837 --> 01:09:31,087 but we were pals, 1549 01:09:31,171 --> 01:09:35,551 and she asked if she could use the apartment one afternoon 1550 01:09:35,634 --> 01:09:37,051 to do an interview. 1551 01:09:37,135 --> 01:09:38,804 - [Janis] A reporter for the Village Voice, 1552 01:09:38,886 --> 01:09:41,305 a guy named Cliff Jar, he came on tour with us, 1553 01:09:41,390 --> 01:09:42,682 and I kept saying to my manager, 1554 01:09:42,765 --> 01:09:43,975 "I don't have a good feeling about this. 1555 01:09:44,059 --> 01:09:46,854 I don't know why, but I don't have a good feeling about it." 1556 01:09:46,936 --> 01:09:48,063 And then one day, 1557 01:09:48,145 --> 01:09:50,690 Peter called me at about midnight and said, 1558 01:09:50,774 --> 01:09:53,318 "I've just seen the upcoming Village Voice article. 1559 01:09:53,402 --> 01:09:56,779 The back page is about you being bisexual." 1560 01:09:56,863 --> 01:09:58,407 And I think I crawled under the covers 1561 01:09:58,489 --> 01:10:00,658 and hid for half a day until Claire pulled them off me 1562 01:10:00,742 --> 01:10:02,578 and told me to pull myself together. 1563 01:10:02,661 --> 01:10:04,412 - [James Reed] On the male side of pop musicians, 1564 01:10:04,496 --> 01:10:06,206 and rock musicians, 1565 01:10:06,289 --> 01:10:07,957 you were allowed to be flamboyant. 1566 01:10:08,041 --> 01:10:10,502 You could sort of skirt the edges of, 1567 01:10:10,586 --> 01:10:12,796 "Is this person gay, is this person not?" 1568 01:10:12,880 --> 01:10:15,548 You think of David Bowie, you think of Lou Reed. 1569 01:10:15,631 --> 01:10:16,716 Even Iggy Pop. 1570 01:10:16,800 --> 01:10:20,679 You had these virile male rock stars who could, 1571 01:10:20,761 --> 01:10:22,847 they could toe that line. 1572 01:10:22,930 --> 01:10:24,265 Women couldn't do that. 1573 01:10:24,349 --> 01:10:26,810 - [Janis] I was living my life and living it openly 1574 01:10:26,894 --> 01:10:28,395 in terms of my circle, 1575 01:10:28,478 --> 01:10:31,105 but not making a huge thing of it in the press. 1576 01:10:31,189 --> 01:10:33,192 So by what right did he say 1577 01:10:33,274 --> 01:10:36,944 that that was the most important part of our lives? 1578 01:10:37,029 --> 01:10:39,530 - [Lazarowitz] At some point along the way, you know, 1579 01:10:42,576 --> 01:10:44,411 you know, as love would have it, 1580 01:10:44,493 --> 01:10:49,498 I don't know exactly what and when and what day it happened, 1581 01:10:49,791 --> 01:10:53,252 but, you know, Claire and I fell in love. 1582 01:10:53,337 --> 01:10:56,088 - [Janis] We were on tour and my manager pulled me aside 1583 01:10:56,172 --> 01:10:58,300 and said, "You're the only one who doesn't know, 1584 01:10:58,382 --> 01:11:00,010 and here's what's going on." 1585 01:11:00,092 --> 01:11:01,511 - [Brooks] Claire was having a scene going 1586 01:11:01,595 --> 01:11:03,721 with Barry Lazarowitz, the drummer. 1587 01:11:03,805 --> 01:11:06,600 - [Janis] Barry hit on me and I said "No." 1588 01:11:06,682 --> 01:11:09,185 So, he hit on Claire and she said "Yes." 1589 01:11:09,269 --> 01:11:11,313 But she forgot to tell me. 1590 01:11:11,395 --> 01:11:12,689 That was devastating. 1591 01:11:12,773 --> 01:11:14,524 - [Brooks] Claire went on with Barry. 1592 01:11:14,608 --> 01:11:15,943 They got married and had kids, 1593 01:11:16,025 --> 01:11:18,694 and Janis was left in the lurch. 1594 01:11:20,948 --> 01:11:23,992 - [Janis] People come and go. The work goes on. 1595 01:11:24,076 --> 01:11:26,161 The work is the constant. 1596 01:11:26,244 --> 01:11:27,787 It's the glory of being an artist. 1597 01:11:27,871 --> 01:11:29,914 (Janis Ian, "Silly Habits") 1598 01:11:29,997 --> 01:11:33,252 ♪ I'm still in love ♪ 1599 01:11:33,335 --> 01:11:35,671 ♪ Though I don't care to let you know ♪ 1600 01:11:35,753 --> 01:11:37,922 - [Janis] I found myself bereft. 1601 01:11:38,006 --> 01:11:39,632 And so, one night, I sat down and I wrote 1602 01:11:39,716 --> 01:11:41,301 a very sad love song. 1603 01:11:41,385 --> 01:11:43,095 I sent it in to my publisher and a few weeks later, 1604 01:11:43,177 --> 01:11:46,139 he called and he said,"Oh, we love that jazz song you wrote. 1605 01:11:46,222 --> 01:11:47,890 That's great. We're really excited. 1606 01:11:47,975 --> 01:11:49,059 Aren't you excited about it?" 1607 01:11:49,141 --> 01:11:51,060 And I said, "Well, my heart's broke, 1608 01:11:51,144 --> 01:11:52,770 but I'm feeling a little better." 1609 01:11:52,854 --> 01:11:56,190 ♪ Silly habits mean a lot ♪ 1610 01:11:56,274 --> 01:11:58,150 - [Janis] He calls in another couple of weeks and he says, 1611 01:11:58,234 --> 01:11:59,944 "Oh, you know that jazz singer Mel Torme 1612 01:12:00,028 --> 01:12:02,780 wants to cut that song of yours, isn't that great?" 1613 01:12:02,864 --> 01:12:05,868 I said, "Well, my heart's broke but I feel a little better." 1614 01:12:05,951 --> 01:12:08,912 (Mel Torme) ♪ I've been parading ♪ 1615 01:12:08,996 --> 01:12:13,292 ♪ Yeah, I've led a lot astray ♪ 1616 01:12:13,375 --> 01:12:15,836 ♪ Why bother waiting ♪ 1617 01:12:15,918 --> 01:12:19,590 ♪ You can have it all today ♪ 1618 01:12:20,506 --> 01:12:23,342 - [Janis] So, I go down and make this record with Mel Torme. 1619 01:12:23,426 --> 01:12:26,137 Six months after it comes out, the Grammy people call. 1620 01:12:26,220 --> 01:12:28,974 They say, "You know, that record you made with Mel Torme 1621 01:12:29,056 --> 01:12:31,726 it's nominated for Best Jazz Duet for a Grammy." 1622 01:12:31,810 --> 01:12:33,520 And I said, "Well, my heart's still broke, 1623 01:12:33,604 --> 01:12:36,856 but I feel a whole lot better now." 1624 01:12:36,939 --> 01:12:40,610 Two weeks after the Grammys, I run into my ex, who says, 1625 01:12:40,694 --> 01:12:42,529 "I hear you took it really hard. 1626 01:12:42,613 --> 01:12:44,280 I will stand here and you can yell at me, 1627 01:12:44,363 --> 01:12:45,157 as much as you want. 1628 01:12:45,239 --> 01:12:47,451 Go ahead, hit me right here. Do whatever you want. 1629 01:12:47,533 --> 01:12:49,077 I'll just stand here and take it." 1630 01:12:49,161 --> 01:12:51,787 And I said, "I have four words to say for you. 1631 01:12:51,872 --> 01:12:53,164 Thank you so much." 1632 01:12:53,247 --> 01:12:57,043 (Janis and Mel singing together) ♪ Silly habits ♪ 1633 01:12:57,127 --> 01:13:00,631 ♪ Mean a ♪ 1634 01:13:00,713 --> 01:13:02,548 ♪ Lot ♪ 1635 01:13:07,220 --> 01:13:09,180 (piano closing, audience cheers and applauds) 1636 01:13:09,264 --> 01:13:10,932 - [Host] How about that! 1637 01:13:11,015 --> 01:13:15,186 The great Janis Ian! Oh, what a kick for me. 1638 01:13:15,270 --> 01:13:17,480 - [Janey Street] After that whole thing, she moved to LA, 1639 01:13:17,564 --> 01:13:19,274 and was living with Tino. 1640 01:13:19,358 --> 01:13:23,069 He was this real intellectual, and he was an older man. 1641 01:13:23,153 --> 01:13:25,780 I remember him really being like kind of an older man. 1642 01:13:25,863 --> 01:13:27,448 (chuckles) I don't know, man. 1643 01:13:27,533 --> 01:13:29,493 It's pretty hard to keep up with Janis. 1644 01:13:29,576 --> 01:13:30,577 - [Janis] If you're in love with somebody, 1645 01:13:30,661 --> 01:13:31,744 you're in love with them. 1646 01:13:31,828 --> 01:13:33,747 You may tilt. I tilt toward women. 1647 01:13:33,829 --> 01:13:36,041 But I fell in love with Tino. 1648 01:13:36,123 --> 01:13:40,087 I had been very insulated in many ways, for many years. 1649 01:13:40,170 --> 01:13:43,548 And now, here was the world. Here was the Comedie-Francaise. 1650 01:13:43,631 --> 01:13:44,925 Here was Portugal. 1651 01:13:45,007 --> 01:13:47,511 Here was an entire universe I knew nothing about. 1652 01:13:47,594 --> 01:13:49,720 The man spoke seven languages fluently. 1653 01:13:49,805 --> 01:13:53,432 He could make me laugh for hours and hours and hours. 1654 01:13:53,516 --> 01:13:55,351 - [Street] Janis seemed happy, you know? 1655 01:13:55,435 --> 01:13:58,313 And that's all I cared about, is Janis being happy. 1656 01:13:58,396 --> 01:13:59,939 (Janis Ian, "Fly Too High") 1657 01:14:00,023 --> 01:14:04,403 ♪ Anonymous autonomous will likely get the best of us yet ♪ 1658 01:14:04,485 --> 01:14:06,195 - [Arti Dixson] At this time in Janis's career, 1659 01:14:06,279 --> 01:14:08,907 she wrote a song called "Fly Too High". 1660 01:14:08,990 --> 01:14:11,076 - [Janis] I'd been hanging out a lot with gay guys 1661 01:14:11,158 --> 01:14:12,743 who were going to the baths, 1662 01:14:12,828 --> 01:14:15,413 and so the song was about the baths, you know? 1663 01:14:15,497 --> 01:14:19,251 "Anonymous likely get the best of us yet." 1664 01:14:19,333 --> 01:14:22,712 ♪ Run too fast ♪ 1665 01:14:22,796 --> 01:14:26,632 ♪ Fly too high ♪ 1666 01:14:26,716 --> 01:14:30,386 ♪ Run too fast ♪ 1667 01:14:30,470 --> 01:14:32,514 ♪ Fly too high ♪ 1668 01:14:32,597 --> 01:14:33,890 - [Interviewer] Some people are saying, 1669 01:14:33,974 --> 01:14:36,268 "Well, what the hell is she doing now?" 1670 01:14:36,350 --> 01:14:38,811 - [Janis] Well, I'm just doing stuff that's going to- 1671 01:14:38,895 --> 01:14:40,939 - [Interviewer] Ian goes disco. 1672 01:14:41,023 --> 01:14:43,024 - [Janis] I haven't gone disco. It's not a disco song. 1673 01:14:43,108 --> 01:14:45,359 If I wanted to go disco, I'd have cut a whole album. 1674 01:14:45,444 --> 01:14:47,404 - [Arti Dixson] "Fly Too High" offered 1675 01:14:47,487 --> 01:14:48,863 another energy to her music, 1676 01:14:48,947 --> 01:14:51,240 and she was a big star in other countries. 1677 01:14:51,324 --> 01:14:53,034 We were given this red carpet treatment 1678 01:14:53,118 --> 01:14:55,537 in most every country that we visited and toured in. 1679 01:14:55,621 --> 01:14:57,413 (Janis Ian, "Will You Dance?") 1680 01:14:57,497 --> 01:14:59,917 ♪ Someone is waiting ♪ 1681 01:15:00,000 --> 01:15:03,212 (audience applauds) 1682 01:15:03,295 --> 01:15:05,087 ♪ Over by the window ♪ 1683 01:15:05,171 --> 01:15:10,135 ♪ Just beyond the stairwell, someone's crying ♪ 1684 01:15:10,385 --> 01:15:13,012 - [Dixson] I remember the limousine driver in Japan 1685 01:15:13,095 --> 01:15:14,597 wearing white gloves. 1686 01:15:14,680 --> 01:15:18,435 - [Reiko Yukawa] In Japan, her concert tour was huge. 1687 01:15:18,519 --> 01:15:20,436 Very successful concerts. 1688 01:15:20,520 --> 01:15:23,064 - [Arti Dixson] Traveling to Australia, traveling to Holland, 1689 01:15:23,148 --> 01:15:26,068 Ireland, Scotland, we were taken out to dinner every night. 1690 01:15:26,150 --> 01:15:27,860 It was pretty amazing. 1691 01:15:27,944 --> 01:15:29,613 - [Janis] I got an offer to go to South Africa 1692 01:15:29,695 --> 01:15:31,782 and spend six weeks playing there. 1693 01:15:31,864 --> 01:15:34,618 - [Mark Fine] In 1948, the South African authorities 1694 01:15:34,701 --> 01:15:38,663 implemented apartheid, which means "apartness" in Dutch. 1695 01:15:38,747 --> 01:15:41,750 And since then, there was this discrete separation 1696 01:15:41,833 --> 01:15:44,377 between Black and Whites, in all aspects of life. 1697 01:15:44,461 --> 01:15:47,672 [South African activist] The African people are realizing that apartheid 1698 01:15:47,756 --> 01:15:50,216 means nothing else but oppression and exploitation. 1699 01:15:50,300 --> 01:15:51,051 (gun fires) 1700 01:15:51,134 --> 01:15:53,220 - [Officer] We are going to take action against you. 1701 01:15:53,554 --> 01:15:55,389 - [Dixson] At the time, there was a cultural boycott 1702 01:15:55,471 --> 01:15:58,140 for musicians and anybody to go to South Africa. 1703 01:15:58,225 --> 01:15:59,268 - [Janis] I thought about it a lot, 1704 01:15:59,350 --> 01:16:02,645 because a lot of my fellow performers were boycotting, 1705 01:16:02,729 --> 01:16:05,858 and I decided that I didn't believe in cultural boycotts. 1706 01:16:05,940 --> 01:16:08,402 I had the contracts written so that they specified 1707 01:16:08,484 --> 01:16:11,279 integrated theaters, integrated hotels, 1708 01:16:11,363 --> 01:16:14,408 integrated transportation, everything integrated. 1709 01:16:14,490 --> 01:16:17,118 - [Fine] I think she had a mission to go there, 1710 01:16:17,202 --> 01:16:19,246 to literally open hearts and minds. 1711 01:16:20,413 --> 01:16:22,332 (Janis, singing later version of "Society's Child") 1712 01:16:22,416 --> 01:16:25,460 ♪ You come to my door, baby ♪ 1713 01:16:25,543 --> 01:16:30,173 ♪ Face is clean and shining black as night ♪ 1714 01:16:30,256 --> 01:16:34,511 ♪ My mama went to answer, you know ♪ 1715 01:16:34,595 --> 01:16:36,680 ♪ That you looked so fine ♪ 1716 01:16:39,015 --> 01:16:41,643 - [Mark Fine] The "Society's Child" song 1717 01:16:41,726 --> 01:16:43,770 was an extraordinary gift 1718 01:16:43,854 --> 01:16:46,230 to a society that was going through 1719 01:16:46,314 --> 01:16:48,192 some extraordinary tensions. 1720 01:16:48,274 --> 01:16:49,943 - [South African couple] You are only married before God. That's all. 1721 01:16:50,027 --> 01:16:52,029 - To think that a mixed marriage is making 1722 01:16:52,112 --> 01:16:54,948 such a big shebang here, that's sort of sad. 1723 01:16:55,032 --> 01:16:57,826 (drum solo) 1724 01:16:57,909 --> 01:16:59,786 - [Janis] Mr. Artie Dixon on the drums. 1725 01:16:59,869 --> 01:17:00,912 - [Janis] To this day, I get letters 1726 01:17:00,996 --> 01:17:02,413 from people who were there 1727 01:17:02,497 --> 01:17:04,248 who say, "That's the first time I ever saw 1728 01:17:04,332 --> 01:17:06,335 an integrated band onstage playing together." 1729 01:17:06,417 --> 01:17:08,462 "It's the first time I ever sat next to a Black person." 1730 01:17:08,545 --> 01:17:10,506 "First time I ever sat next to a White person." 1731 01:17:10,588 --> 01:17:12,548 - [Fine] She got the consent to perform 1732 01:17:12,632 --> 01:17:14,676 to mixed-race audiences. 1733 01:17:16,011 --> 01:17:19,597 And that's very important because that was the very reason 1734 01:17:19,680 --> 01:17:21,934 the boycott was put in place. 1735 01:17:22,016 --> 01:17:23,851 - [Dixson] We were able to play for all the people 1736 01:17:23,935 --> 01:17:25,770 in South Africa, 1737 01:17:25,854 --> 01:17:28,189 but there were some repercussions for going there. 1738 01:17:28,273 --> 01:17:29,690 - [Janis] The UN banned me. 1739 01:17:29,774 --> 01:17:31,652 I couldn't do television or radio for two years, 1740 01:17:31,734 --> 01:17:33,819 and they offered me the choice, the UN, they said 1741 01:17:33,904 --> 01:17:35,697 if I would say that I didn't understand 1742 01:17:35,780 --> 01:17:38,867 that it was apartheid, they would forgive me, and I said, 1743 01:17:38,951 --> 01:17:43,704 "No, I'm not gonna lie and say I didn't know it existed." 1744 01:17:44,581 --> 01:17:46,625 (Janis ) ♪ I sure get lonely ♪ 1745 01:17:46,707 --> 01:17:48,585 - [Janis] The job of an artist is bigger 1746 01:17:48,668 --> 01:17:49,752 than a cultural boycott. 1747 01:17:49,837 --> 01:17:52,171 It doesn't make sense to keep people from hearing 1748 01:17:52,256 --> 01:17:54,048 what may change their hearts. 1749 01:17:54,131 --> 01:17:57,301 (gentle string music) 1750 01:17:58,386 --> 01:17:59,637 - [Dixson] When I first met Janis, 1751 01:17:59,720 --> 01:18:01,347 her husband, Tino, was with her. 1752 01:18:01,430 --> 01:18:03,140 - [Janey Street] He had a gun, and he showed it to me 1753 01:18:03,225 --> 01:18:04,725 and it went off. 1754 01:18:04,810 --> 01:18:05,853 I'll never forget that. 1755 01:18:05,935 --> 01:18:08,479 And my ear, I mean, it took me like days 1756 01:18:08,564 --> 01:18:10,649 to get my hearing back and it was very fortunate 1757 01:18:10,731 --> 01:18:13,652 that it just went into the wall somewhere. 1758 01:18:13,734 --> 01:18:16,654 (string music continues) 1759 01:18:16,738 --> 01:18:18,323 - [Janis] He had to be there all the time. 1760 01:18:18,407 --> 01:18:21,201 He would get very jealous of anybody I spent time with. 1761 01:18:21,284 --> 01:18:22,452 (Janis Ian, "Watercolors") 1762 01:18:22,536 --> 01:18:26,582 ♪ I said do you wish me dead ♪ 1763 01:18:26,664 --> 01:18:30,127 ♪ Lip service to books you've read ♪ 1764 01:18:30,210 --> 01:18:32,378 Things started to get weird. 1765 01:18:32,462 --> 01:18:36,382 I couldn't go into his closet, and there were locks. 1766 01:18:36,466 --> 01:18:37,717 Then he hit me. 1767 01:18:37,801 --> 01:18:40,345 And I remember thinking, I have a lot of money, 1768 01:18:40,429 --> 01:18:43,556 and I have fame and I'm not one of those women. 1769 01:18:43,640 --> 01:18:45,600 - [Street] She acted like everything was fine. 1770 01:18:45,684 --> 01:18:47,394 She was very under his thumb, though. 1771 01:18:47,476 --> 01:18:50,063 I mean, I knew that, but I didn't think it was a problem. 1772 01:18:50,146 --> 01:18:54,443 ♪ Go find a fence, locate a shell ♪ 1773 01:18:54,525 --> 01:18:59,155 ♪ And hide yourself, go on, go to hell ♪ 1774 01:18:59,238 --> 01:19:01,949 ♪ Go away from me ♪ 1775 01:19:02,033 --> 01:19:03,368 - [Janis] The last time I saw him, 1776 01:19:03,452 --> 01:19:06,078 he held a gun on me for seven hours. 1777 01:19:06,162 --> 01:19:08,164 I talked to him about being Catholic, 1778 01:19:08,247 --> 01:19:10,833 about how his grandmother would feel. 1779 01:19:10,917 --> 01:19:12,711 I urged him to take more Valium, 1780 01:19:12,793 --> 01:19:14,337 because he took a lot of Valium. 1781 01:19:14,421 --> 01:19:19,091 I urged him to keep drinking. I hoped he would pass out. 1782 01:19:22,054 --> 01:19:24,640 He finally agreed with me that he was tired, 1783 01:19:24,722 --> 01:19:28,476 and I helped him up to bed, left the house, that was it. 1784 01:19:28,560 --> 01:19:30,436 And it's a terrible thing to say in some ways, 1785 01:19:30,520 --> 01:19:31,438 but the day that he died 1786 01:19:31,521 --> 01:19:33,439 was the day that I finally felt free 1787 01:19:33,524 --> 01:19:36,193 because I no longer had to worry about him coming for me. 1788 01:19:36,275 --> 01:19:38,779 ♪ Set me free ♪ 1789 01:19:42,032 --> 01:19:45,493 (Instrumental conclusion of "Watercolors") 1790 01:19:48,287 --> 01:19:50,791 (phone rings) 1791 01:19:52,042 --> 01:19:54,168 - [Janis] I woke up one day and my checks had bounced. 1792 01:19:54,252 --> 01:19:56,212 Somebody called me from a credit card company and said, 1793 01:19:56,296 --> 01:19:58,422 "Are you aware that your bill is three months overdue?" 1794 01:19:58,506 --> 01:20:00,300 And I said, "Ah, it's gotta be a mistake. 1795 01:20:00,384 --> 01:20:03,386 My business manager's been with me since I was 14." 1796 01:20:03,470 --> 01:20:04,555 It wasn't a mistake. 1797 01:20:04,637 --> 01:20:05,721 He'd been running two sets of books 1798 01:20:05,805 --> 01:20:07,099 out of Chemical, New York. 1799 01:20:07,181 --> 01:20:10,435 So when it looked like I had paid $20,000 in taxes 1800 01:20:10,519 --> 01:20:12,479 on one set, the exact same check 1801 01:20:12,563 --> 01:20:15,231 went to pay $20,000 of his taxes. 1802 01:20:15,314 --> 01:20:17,442 - [Jamie Yadoff] She's literally back at square one. 1803 01:20:17,525 --> 01:20:20,654 And meanwhile, during all this now, her mom is sick. 1804 01:20:20,737 --> 01:20:23,823 (gentle piano music) 1805 01:20:26,076 --> 01:20:29,162 - [Janis] Got on the phone with the IRS agent, Mr. Granite, 1806 01:20:29,246 --> 01:20:32,248 you cannot make that up, and his first words to me were, 1807 01:20:32,332 --> 01:20:33,958 "Fuck you. I know about you artists. 1808 01:20:34,042 --> 01:20:34,835 Fuck you." 1809 01:20:34,917 --> 01:20:37,546 And I said, "Look, I'm sole support for my mother. 1810 01:20:37,628 --> 01:20:39,297 She's got multiple sclerosis. 1811 01:20:39,381 --> 01:20:40,882 I need $500 a month to send her." 1812 01:20:40,966 --> 01:20:42,967 And he said, "Fuck you." 1813 01:20:46,262 --> 01:20:48,599 I had a Bosendorfer piano that I had looked for 1814 01:20:48,681 --> 01:20:51,225 for three years and waited for for three years, 1815 01:20:51,310 --> 01:20:54,896 and I sold it so I'd have money to send my mother money. 1816 01:20:54,979 --> 01:20:56,773 And by then, I had lost everything, 1817 01:20:56,856 --> 01:20:59,275 but my instruments, to the IRS. 1818 01:20:59,359 --> 01:21:02,029 So, pretty soon, there was no money left at all. 1819 01:21:02,112 --> 01:21:04,739 - [Al Hagaman] She was in dire financial situations. 1820 01:21:04,823 --> 01:21:06,533 Really, by the time that Janis and I 1821 01:21:06,617 --> 01:21:09,661 started working together, our next game plan was, 1822 01:21:09,744 --> 01:21:12,413 "Okay, how do we start to build some 1823 01:21:12,497 --> 01:21:15,542 new intellectual properties to try to get you out of this?" 1824 01:21:15,626 --> 01:21:19,171 (acoustic blues music) 1825 01:21:19,253 --> 01:21:21,631 - [Local TV news Reporter] When things fell apart for Janis, 1826 01:21:21,715 --> 01:21:24,967 she needed to find a place to pull her life back together. 1827 01:21:25,051 --> 01:21:28,180 She had fame, she had a fortune and lost it. 1828 01:21:28,262 --> 01:21:30,140 What she needed was to remember 1829 01:21:30,224 --> 01:21:33,310 why she became a songwriter in the first place. 1830 01:21:33,393 --> 01:21:36,313 She found that answer in Nashville. 1831 01:21:37,855 --> 01:21:40,274 - [Janis] At the time, Nashville was very much a place that 1832 01:21:40,359 --> 01:21:43,194 you didn't admit to going, unless you were a country singer. 1833 01:21:43,278 --> 01:21:45,988 I took a flight down there, and I hit the tarmac, 1834 01:21:46,073 --> 01:21:47,573 and I thought, "I'm home." 1835 01:21:47,658 --> 01:21:50,034 ♪ I've been round a hard road ♪ 1836 01:21:50,118 --> 01:21:52,037 ♪ Rough times behind ♪ 1837 01:21:52,119 --> 01:21:53,997 ♪ Rough times ahead ♪ 1838 01:21:54,081 --> 01:21:55,039 - [Robert K. Oermann] Janis treated herself like 1839 01:21:55,122 --> 01:21:56,375 a brand new artist, 1840 01:21:56,457 --> 01:21:57,751 when she came here. 1841 01:21:57,835 --> 01:21:59,627 She was building herself back up from scratch, 1842 01:21:59,711 --> 01:22:02,588 and the very, very wise thing she did 1843 01:22:02,672 --> 01:22:05,050 was hanging out at the Bluebird Cafe, night after night. 1844 01:22:05,132 --> 01:22:08,220 That is the songwriting mecca. That's like ground zero. 1845 01:22:08,302 --> 01:22:13,307 ♪ If you'll call my name, I'll ring you in ♪ 1846 01:22:14,268 --> 01:22:19,021 ♪ Set you down in the country town with the sky ♪ 1847 01:22:19,105 --> 01:22:21,274 - [Amy Kurland] Don Schlitz was playing with his friends, 1848 01:22:21,358 --> 01:22:25,028 and I got the word Janis was coming down to see the show. 1849 01:22:25,112 --> 01:22:26,988 After that, every time they would play, 1850 01:22:27,072 --> 01:22:29,032 she would come to hear them, 1851 01:22:29,115 --> 01:22:32,911 and maybe get invited up to do a song or two. 1852 01:22:32,994 --> 01:22:34,287 - [Oermann] The community went, 1853 01:22:34,371 --> 01:22:36,081 "Oh, here's this great big pop icon 1854 01:22:36,163 --> 01:22:39,333 who really likes what we do and respects who we are." 1855 01:22:39,417 --> 01:22:42,045 - [Kathy Mattea] This town was a perfect fit for Janis, 1856 01:22:42,128 --> 01:22:43,212 because this is a town that reveres 1857 01:22:43,296 --> 01:22:45,215 songwriting and songwriters, 1858 01:22:45,298 --> 01:22:49,970 and it's a place where she could meet her match. 1859 01:22:50,052 --> 01:22:52,180 - [Marti Jones] Kye Fleming had written 1860 01:22:52,264 --> 01:22:54,015 a lot of country hits. 1861 01:22:54,099 --> 01:22:56,894 "I Was Country When Country Wasn't Cool". 1862 01:22:56,976 --> 01:22:59,854 "Sleeping Single in a Double Bed". 1863 01:22:59,938 --> 01:23:03,317 ♪ Sleeping single in a double bed ♪ 1864 01:23:03,399 --> 01:23:06,569 ♪ Thinking over things I wish I'd said ♪ 1865 01:23:06,653 --> 01:23:09,948 ♪ I should've held you but I let you go ♪ 1866 01:23:10,032 --> 01:23:12,783 ♪ Now I'm the one sleeping all alone ♪ 1867 01:23:12,868 --> 01:23:16,829 - [Jones] Kye had that sort of commercial edge, 1868 01:23:16,913 --> 01:23:19,416 having been a writer in Nashville for some time, 1869 01:23:19,498 --> 01:23:20,708 and having hits. 1870 01:23:20,792 --> 01:23:22,461 - [Kye Fleming] I was writing with Don Schlitz. 1871 01:23:22,543 --> 01:23:25,087 MCA was his company and he said, "You know, 1872 01:23:25,171 --> 01:23:29,342 they're sending Janis Ian here to write with a few people." 1873 01:23:29,426 --> 01:23:30,676 And he said, "Would you like to meet her?" 1874 01:23:30,761 --> 01:23:33,596 And I said, (scoffs), "Yeah, of course." 1875 01:23:33,680 --> 01:23:37,059 - [Hagaman] If you're a songwriter, you know Janis Ian. 1876 01:23:37,141 --> 01:23:38,393 If you're a songwriter, 1877 01:23:38,476 --> 01:23:41,979 you know the integrity of her writing. 1878 01:23:42,064 --> 01:23:46,652 And so the opportunity to sit in a room with this woman 1879 01:23:46,734 --> 01:23:49,613 and co-write with her was an honor. 1880 01:23:51,364 --> 01:23:54,243 - [Kye] Janis had a friend, her name was Mary. 1881 01:23:54,326 --> 01:23:56,619 She had a restaurant called Options. 1882 01:23:56,703 --> 01:23:59,247 And we would go there for lunch every day. 1883 01:23:59,331 --> 01:24:01,416 It wasn't doing well. 1884 01:24:01,500 --> 01:24:02,917 Tough business. 1885 01:24:03,001 --> 01:24:05,087 - [Janis] We walked in one day and Mary was really down 1886 01:24:05,170 --> 01:24:06,255 and I said, "What's wrong?" 1887 01:24:06,337 --> 01:24:08,381 And she said, "I'm gonna lose the restaurant. 1888 01:24:08,465 --> 01:24:09,423 Why should I stay alive? 1889 01:24:09,507 --> 01:24:11,385 I mean, I'm not doing anything in the world." 1890 01:24:11,467 --> 01:24:13,720 - [Kye] She started talking about committing suicide. 1891 01:24:13,804 --> 01:24:17,850 And I knew that Janis and I were both feeling 1892 01:24:17,932 --> 01:24:21,603 the same thing and it was like, "What do we do here?" 1893 01:24:21,686 --> 01:24:23,564 - [Janis] We said the usual platitudes and she said, 1894 01:24:23,646 --> 01:24:25,606 "No, no, it's different for you. 1895 01:24:25,690 --> 01:24:28,694 Whether you have children or not, your work's gonna live. 1896 01:24:28,777 --> 01:24:30,529 But I haven't left a mark." 1897 01:24:30,612 --> 01:24:33,198 - [Kye] What do you say after that? 1898 01:24:33,282 --> 01:24:36,493 What did we need to say to Mary? 1899 01:24:36,577 --> 01:24:40,497 (gentle acoustic guitar music) 1900 01:24:41,372 --> 01:24:43,250 - [Janis] I was sitting there with a guitar and I said, 1901 01:24:43,332 --> 01:24:45,210 "Man, some people's lives just... 1902 01:24:45,293 --> 01:24:47,880 I don't know, some people's lives just run down." 1903 01:24:47,962 --> 01:24:51,048 And Kye said, "Some people's lives run down like clocks." 1904 01:24:51,132 --> 01:24:53,467 (Janis Ian, Kye Fleming, "Some People's Live") 1905 01:24:53,551 --> 01:24:56,971 ♪ Some people's lives ♪ 1906 01:24:57,055 --> 01:25:00,934 ♪ Run down like clocks ♪ 1907 01:25:01,018 --> 01:25:05,939 ♪ One day, they stop ♪ 1908 01:25:06,023 --> 01:25:10,819 ♪ That's all they've got ♪ 1909 01:25:10,903 --> 01:25:15,532 ♪ Some lives wear out ♪ 1910 01:25:15,615 --> 01:25:20,621 ♪ Like old tennis shoes ♪ 1911 01:25:20,746 --> 01:25:25,667 ♪ No one can use ♪ 1912 01:25:25,751 --> 01:25:30,380 ♪ It's sad but it's true ♪ 1913 01:25:30,463 --> 01:25:34,926 ♪ Didn't anybody tell them? ♪ 1914 01:25:35,010 --> 01:25:39,555 ♪ Didn't anybody see? ♪ 1915 01:25:39,640 --> 01:25:44,645 ♪ Didn't anybody love them ♪ 1916 01:25:44,770 --> 01:25:47,689 ♪ Like you love me? ♪ 1917 01:25:49,649 --> 01:25:51,652 - [Kye] We were looking for this clincher 1918 01:25:51,734 --> 01:25:54,070 that we hadn't found. 1919 01:25:54,947 --> 01:25:58,158 And one day, we were driving down the interstate, 1920 01:25:58,242 --> 01:25:59,868 and it just popped in. 1921 01:25:59,952 --> 01:26:04,206 ♪ And some people's lives ♪ 1922 01:26:04,288 --> 01:26:09,293 ♪ Are as cold as their lips ♪ 1923 01:26:10,628 --> 01:26:14,466 ♪ They just need to be kissed ♪ 1924 01:26:15,842 --> 01:26:17,845 - [Stephen Holden] "Some people's lives are 1925 01:26:17,927 --> 01:26:19,762 as cold as their lips. 1926 01:26:19,846 --> 01:26:21,347 They just need to be kissed." 1927 01:26:21,430 --> 01:26:24,141 Oh, that's just fantastic. 1928 01:26:24,225 --> 01:26:26,854 It's one of the great songs of all time. 1929 01:26:26,936 --> 01:26:31,274 I heard Janis and Kye sing it together at the Bottom Line. 1930 01:26:31,358 --> 01:26:33,985 - [Don Dixon] The Bottom Line, at the time in the late '80s, 1931 01:26:34,069 --> 01:26:35,988 was an iconic club where Bruce Springsteen 1932 01:26:36,070 --> 01:26:37,823 played one of his first shows. 1933 01:26:37,905 --> 01:26:42,536 ♪ Some people's lives ♪ 1934 01:26:42,618 --> 01:26:47,416 ♪ Fade like their dreams ♪ 1935 01:26:47,498 --> 01:26:51,211 ♪ Too tired to rise ♪ 1936 01:26:51,295 --> 01:26:53,838 - [Dixon] I'm not an easy crier, but my goodness, 1937 01:26:53,921 --> 01:26:56,841 you just could not help it, it was so beautiful. 1938 01:26:56,925 --> 01:26:59,469 - [Holden] It was magic, and I immediately, 1939 01:26:59,552 --> 01:27:00,386 immediately actually, 1940 01:27:01,512 --> 01:27:03,890 sent it to Bette Midler, who I knew, 1941 01:27:03,974 --> 01:27:05,600 in my heyday as an AandR man. 1942 01:27:05,684 --> 01:27:07,060 (Bette Midler singing) 1943 01:27:07,144 --> 01:27:10,479 ♪ Some people laugh ♪ 1944 01:27:10,564 --> 01:27:13,900 ♪ When they need to cry ♪ 1945 01:27:16,528 --> 01:27:19,280 - [Janis] Bette's album was heard by millions of people. 1946 01:27:19,363 --> 01:27:21,533 And I remember that we went to Mary's, 1947 01:27:21,617 --> 01:27:23,284 to her restaurant with a guitar. 1948 01:27:23,368 --> 01:27:24,703 - [Kye] We sat there and said, 1949 01:27:24,786 --> 01:27:26,454 "We want to play you something. 1950 01:27:26,537 --> 01:27:27,997 And here's your song." 1951 01:27:28,081 --> 01:27:32,668 ♪ Some people ask ♪ 1952 01:27:32,752 --> 01:27:37,591 ♪ If the tears have to fall ♪ 1953 01:27:37,673 --> 01:27:42,429 ♪ Then why take your chances ♪ 1954 01:27:42,512 --> 01:27:45,515 ♪ Why bother at all ♪ 1955 01:27:46,807 --> 01:27:48,268 - [Kye] We played it for her. 1956 01:27:48,351 --> 01:27:51,188 She just busted out in this smile. 1957 01:27:52,648 --> 01:27:54,690 "That's my song? 1958 01:27:54,774 --> 01:27:56,318 That's my song." 1959 01:27:56,400 --> 01:27:57,152 - [Janis] I told her, 1960 01:27:57,235 --> 01:27:59,363 "You don't know the ripples you're creating. 1961 01:27:59,445 --> 01:28:01,323 Now you've made a change in the world." 1962 01:28:01,405 --> 01:28:05,243 ♪ 'Cause that's all they need ♪ 1963 01:28:09,331 --> 01:28:11,082 - [Janis] Kye Fleming is probably the greatest lyricist 1964 01:28:11,166 --> 01:28:12,542 I've ever worked with. 1965 01:28:12,626 --> 01:28:14,461 She made me think about my work 1966 01:28:14,545 --> 01:28:16,505 in a way that I had never thought about it. 1967 01:28:16,587 --> 01:28:18,131 Just basics that I hadn't learned, 1968 01:28:18,215 --> 01:28:19,632 like if you're gonna hit the audience 1969 01:28:19,716 --> 01:28:22,386 with a really heavy line, give them another couple of lines 1970 01:28:22,469 --> 01:28:25,055 that aren't so deep so that they have time to recover. 1971 01:28:25,137 --> 01:28:26,722 - [Kye] We were writing every day, 1972 01:28:26,806 --> 01:28:28,934 and it was just total inspiration. 1973 01:28:29,016 --> 01:28:31,019 And what is inspiration, 1974 01:28:32,563 --> 01:28:35,064 except being filled with love? 1975 01:28:37,900 --> 01:28:40,737 And of course, we fell in love. 1976 01:28:40,820 --> 01:28:41,988 - [Janis] We ended up living together 1977 01:28:42,072 --> 01:28:43,448 for two and a half years. 1978 01:28:43,532 --> 01:28:44,615 When we started living together, 1979 01:28:44,699 --> 01:28:47,327 she was coming out of a Pentecostal family. 1980 01:28:47,411 --> 01:28:50,037 It was hard for her, because she hadn't grown up 1981 01:28:50,122 --> 01:28:52,666 in a culture where people were as accepting 1982 01:28:52,748 --> 01:28:54,333 as the culture I grew up in. 1983 01:28:54,417 --> 01:28:57,546 - [Kye] I was always conflicted about the sexual part, 1984 01:28:57,628 --> 01:29:01,632 and of course, I felt like I had to hide it from my parents. 1985 01:29:01,716 --> 01:29:03,969 They wouldn't understand that. 1986 01:29:04,051 --> 01:29:06,512 - [Janis] Her mother, Verda, was so upset. 1987 01:29:06,596 --> 01:29:08,640 She got on her knees for three days, 1988 01:29:08,724 --> 01:29:11,435 and she prayed to God to change Kye. 1989 01:29:11,518 --> 01:29:13,270 - [Kye] I knew it was okay. 1990 01:29:14,270 --> 01:29:16,189 How can love be wrong? 1991 01:29:16,273 --> 01:29:17,106 (Kye sighs) 1992 01:29:18,274 --> 01:29:19,859 (Janis Ian and Kye Fleming, "Hearts Take Time") 1993 01:29:19,943 --> 01:29:22,362 ♪ Heart takes time ♪ 1994 01:29:22,445 --> 01:29:25,532 ♪ No calls anymore ♪ 1995 01:29:25,615 --> 01:29:30,621 ♪ Just four walls and a lock on the door ♪ 1996 01:29:30,746 --> 01:29:35,708 ♪ No denying you're in hiding but that's all right ♪ 1997 01:29:35,876 --> 01:29:38,795 ♪ Hearts take time ♪ 1998 01:29:40,171 --> 01:29:43,591 - [Kye] I ended up in another relationship, 1999 01:29:43,675 --> 01:29:45,426 and that broke us up. 2000 01:29:46,929 --> 01:29:48,055 Janis and me. 2001 01:29:48,137 --> 01:29:49,347 - [Janis] We were supposed to keep writing, 2002 01:29:49,430 --> 01:29:50,640 even though we'd broken up. 2003 01:29:50,724 --> 01:29:53,100 (chuckles) That's what you think is going to happen. 2004 01:29:53,185 --> 01:29:54,269 So naive. 2005 01:29:54,353 --> 01:29:59,358 ♪ One day, they'll be someone to love on again ♪ 2006 01:29:59,942 --> 01:30:02,610 - [Amy Kurland] When their relationship ended, 2007 01:30:02,694 --> 01:30:06,739 when Janis wanted to get out of herself, 2008 01:30:06,823 --> 01:30:10,159 this was the place she would come. 2009 01:30:10,243 --> 01:30:12,203 - [Janis] I was at the Bluebird Cafe and I watched 2010 01:30:12,287 --> 01:30:15,039 a young writer from a strip mining town in Virginia 2011 01:30:15,122 --> 01:30:17,792 named Lance Cowan, sing a song about the Holocaust. 2012 01:30:17,876 --> 01:30:20,878 And I thought, "Here's this kid from West Virginia, 2013 01:30:20,962 --> 01:30:23,090 not a Jewish bone in his body, 2014 01:30:23,172 --> 01:30:26,217 and he's writing about this subject, and I'm silent." 2015 01:30:26,301 --> 01:30:29,220 And I walked out of there, feeling so ashamed 2016 01:30:29,304 --> 01:30:31,014 that I hadn't dared to write it, 2017 01:30:31,097 --> 01:30:33,182 because I grew up on stories of the Holocaust, 2018 01:30:33,266 --> 01:30:35,310 and I knew a lot of people with tattoos, 2019 01:30:35,394 --> 01:30:37,479 but I'd never felt myself qualified. 2020 01:30:37,563 --> 01:30:40,064 So, I started this song, and it was a hard song to write, 2021 01:30:40,148 --> 01:30:41,567 because what do you say? 2022 01:30:41,649 --> 01:30:43,443 (Janis Ian, "Tattoo") 2023 01:30:43,527 --> 01:30:45,988 ♪ Her new name was tattooed to her wrist ♪ 2024 01:30:46,070 --> 01:30:49,490 ♪ It was longer than the old one ♪ 2025 01:30:49,574 --> 01:30:53,328 ♪ Sealed in the silence with a fist ♪ 2026 01:30:53,412 --> 01:30:57,875 ♪ This night will be a cold one ♪ 2027 01:30:57,957 --> 01:31:02,921 ♪ Centuries live in her eyes ♪ 2028 01:31:03,171 --> 01:31:08,176 ♪ Destiny laughs over jack-booted thighs ♪ 2029 01:31:08,635 --> 01:31:11,721 ♪ Work makes us free, says the sign ♪ 2030 01:31:11,805 --> 01:31:15,475 ♪ Nothing leaves here alive ♪ 2031 01:31:22,024 --> 01:31:24,109 ♪ Tattoo ♪ 2032 01:31:28,488 --> 01:31:29,739 - [Janis] I know what it is to feel trapped. 2033 01:31:29,823 --> 01:31:31,490 I know what it is to feel terrified. 2034 01:31:31,574 --> 01:31:33,243 I know what it is to feel powerless. 2035 01:31:33,327 --> 01:31:35,537 Not to that extent, not in that circumstance, 2036 01:31:35,621 --> 01:31:38,497 but I know those feelings, and so I can use those feelings 2037 01:31:38,582 --> 01:31:41,083 as part of being truthful in the song. 2038 01:31:41,167 --> 01:31:46,172 ♪ It gets darker every night ♪ 2039 01:31:46,422 --> 01:31:51,345 ♪ Spread-eagled out among the stars, she says ♪ 2040 01:31:51,427 --> 01:31:55,640 ♪ Somewhere in this tunnel lives a light ♪ 2041 01:31:55,724 --> 01:31:59,144 ♪ Still my beating heart ♪ 2042 01:32:00,604 --> 01:32:02,480 - [Jamie Yadoff] That song, whenever she sings it, 2043 01:32:02,564 --> 01:32:03,814 always gets me. 2044 01:32:03,899 --> 01:32:06,609 We had family who were lost in the Holocaust 2045 01:32:06,693 --> 01:32:09,529 and that's something we held onto. 2046 01:32:09,613 --> 01:32:11,739 We knew that that could happen at any time. 2047 01:32:11,823 --> 01:32:14,659 It's our history but it's also our present. 2048 01:32:14,743 --> 01:32:19,497 ♪ Surgeons took the mark but they could not take it far ♪ 2049 01:32:19,581 --> 01:32:24,586 ♪ It was written on her heart ♪ 2050 01:32:25,045 --> 01:32:28,841 ♪ Written on her empty heart ♪ 2051 01:32:28,923 --> 01:32:32,761 ♪ Tattooed ♪ 2052 01:32:42,770 --> 01:32:44,355 - [Oermann] Janis had severe health problems 2053 01:32:44,439 --> 01:32:45,690 when she moved here. 2054 01:32:45,774 --> 01:32:48,652 And so part of coming to Nashville was also to recuperate. 2055 01:32:48,734 --> 01:32:51,238 - [Janis] I was diagnosed with chronic fatigue syndrome. 2056 01:32:51,320 --> 01:32:53,030 I couldn't drive, I couldn't think. 2057 01:32:53,114 --> 01:32:55,242 I was in pain all the time. It was horrible. 2058 01:32:55,324 --> 01:32:58,328 And I complained to a friend that I needed somebody 2059 01:32:58,412 --> 01:32:59,662 to play chess with and she said, 2060 01:32:59,746 --> 01:33:01,289 "Oh, I have a friend named Pat." 2061 01:33:01,372 --> 01:33:04,083 So, I called her and I said, "Hey, this is Janis Ian. 2062 01:33:04,167 --> 01:33:06,627 Our mutual friend says maybe you'd play chess with me? 2063 01:33:06,712 --> 01:33:10,090 I'm kind of housebound right now, but I'd love to meet you." 2064 01:33:10,173 --> 01:33:11,925 So, the next day, I get this message 2065 01:33:12,009 --> 01:33:13,676 and it's on my answering machine and it says, 2066 01:33:13,760 --> 01:33:15,845 "Hi, this is Pat Snyder and I understand that you called me, 2067 01:33:15,929 --> 01:33:17,597 but I didn't realize because I thought, 2068 01:33:17,680 --> 01:33:19,015 'Why would Janis Ian be calling me?' 2069 01:33:19,099 --> 01:33:20,350 So and I would love to meet you, 2070 01:33:20,434 --> 01:33:23,311 but I have to go now 'cause my dryer is on fire." 2071 01:33:23,395 --> 01:33:25,439 We went out for dinner and Pat said something 2072 01:33:25,521 --> 01:33:27,649 about being on a date and I said, "It can't be a date. 2073 01:33:27,733 --> 01:33:29,109 You didn't bring flowers." 2074 01:33:29,193 --> 01:33:32,154 And she said, "Excuse me", and she went into the parking lot 2075 01:33:32,237 --> 01:33:34,655 and she brought back a leaf and she said, 2076 01:33:34,739 --> 01:33:36,533 "I couldn't find any flowers, but here." 2077 01:33:37,951 --> 01:33:39,953 (Janis Ian, "Through the Years") 2078 01:33:40,037 --> 01:33:43,414 ♪ Through the years we've been happy ♪ 2079 01:33:43,497 --> 01:33:47,668 ♪ Through the years we've been sad ♪ 2080 01:33:47,752 --> 01:33:52,673 ♪ And sometimes feeling lucky ♪ 2081 01:33:52,757 --> 01:33:55,594 ♪ Was the only luck we had ♪ 2082 01:33:55,676 --> 01:33:57,304 - [Kathy Mattea] They were just perfect for each other. 2083 01:33:57,386 --> 01:34:00,181 It was just each met their person, finally, you know? 2084 01:34:00,265 --> 01:34:02,559 - [Janis] I had paid off the last of the IRS. 2085 01:34:02,643 --> 01:34:04,560 After 13 years, I was out of debt. 2086 01:34:04,645 --> 01:34:07,355 I could start working again, but I needed an album. 2087 01:34:07,439 --> 01:34:08,774 I was telling Pat about it and saying, 2088 01:34:08,856 --> 01:34:10,359 "You know, I've got this song, 'Tattoo', 2089 01:34:10,442 --> 01:34:11,944 that I desperately want heard. 2090 01:34:12,027 --> 01:34:13,278 I've got this song, 'Some People's Lives', 2091 01:34:13,362 --> 01:34:16,155 I desperately want heard, and I can't get a publisher 2092 01:34:16,239 --> 01:34:18,492 or a record company to save my life." 2093 01:34:18,574 --> 01:34:20,743 - [Ann Powers] Ageism, for women in the pop world, 2094 01:34:20,827 --> 01:34:21,578 starts at, well, you could say it starts at, like, 2095 01:34:21,662 --> 01:34:24,664 age 28 or age 30, 2096 01:34:24,747 --> 01:34:27,751 but certainly by the time you're 35, 2097 01:34:29,043 --> 01:34:31,755 you're not as saleable in many people's eyes. 2098 01:34:31,838 --> 01:34:33,673 - [Janis] Pat said, "What would it cost to make an album?" 2099 01:34:33,756 --> 01:34:35,759 And I said, "$30,000, $35,000?" 2100 01:34:35,842 --> 01:34:37,845 And she said, "How much of a second mortgage can we get?" 2101 01:34:40,096 --> 01:34:41,305 (Janis Ian, "Breaking Silence") 2102 01:34:41,390 --> 01:34:43,100 ♪ Come into my solitude ♪ 2103 01:34:43,182 --> 01:34:44,851 ♪ Though I weary be ♪ 2104 01:34:44,935 --> 01:34:46,645 ♪ Come into my tenderness ♪ 2105 01:34:46,728 --> 01:34:48,354 ♪ Dream along with me ♪ 2106 01:34:48,438 --> 01:34:50,774 ♪ Listen to the whispers sing ♪ 2107 01:34:50,858 --> 01:34:53,277 ♪ Listen to the singers shout ♪ 2108 01:34:53,359 --> 01:34:55,737 ♪ Come into my solitude ♪ 2109 01:34:55,820 --> 01:34:58,990 ♪ Me and my big mouth ♪ 2110 01:35:00,617 --> 01:35:02,953 - [Al Hagaman] What I recall about "Breaking Silence" 2111 01:35:03,036 --> 01:35:05,162 is the intimacy 2112 01:35:05,247 --> 01:35:09,667 of the record from its creation to its content. 2113 01:35:09,751 --> 01:35:12,421 Very few of those songs 2114 01:35:12,503 --> 01:35:15,923 would have ever had a prayer on US radio. 2115 01:35:17,176 --> 01:35:18,676 - [Janis] A friend of mine who I was working with 2116 01:35:18,760 --> 01:35:20,220 at the time called me and said, 2117 01:35:20,304 --> 01:35:22,389 "'Breaking Silence', just nominated for a Grammy." 2118 01:35:22,471 --> 01:35:24,807 And I was like, "Are you serious?" 2119 01:35:24,891 --> 01:35:26,601 "Yeah, Best Folk and Best Engineered." 2120 01:35:26,685 --> 01:35:28,979 So, all of a sudden, people were buying it. 2121 01:35:29,061 --> 01:35:31,981 ♪ Breaking silence ♪ 2122 01:35:33,774 --> 01:35:35,359 - [James Reed] "Silence" was such an important 2123 01:35:35,444 --> 01:35:36,360 part of the discourse 2124 01:35:36,444 --> 01:35:38,363 around gay and lesbian issues at that time. 2125 01:35:38,447 --> 01:35:39,907 Think about don't ask, don't tell. 2126 01:35:39,989 --> 01:35:42,658 - [Bill Clinton] Most homosexuals would probably not declare 2127 01:35:42,743 --> 01:35:45,244 their sexual orientation openly, 2128 01:35:45,328 --> 01:35:49,457 thereby making an already hard life even more difficult. 2129 01:35:49,541 --> 01:35:51,376 - [Janis] It was '91, Pat and I were together. 2130 01:35:51,460 --> 01:35:52,836 We were out to everybody. 2131 01:35:52,920 --> 01:35:56,088 So, I was all set to be out to the world, but Urvashi Vaid, 2132 01:35:56,172 --> 01:35:59,384 who was then head of the National Gay Liberation Task Force, 2133 01:35:59,467 --> 01:36:02,386 took me to lunch and asked me to wait until I had an album. 2134 01:36:02,470 --> 01:36:04,890 ♪ Thought I was the only one ♪ 2135 01:36:04,972 --> 01:36:06,475 ♪ Thought I was the only ♪ 2136 01:36:06,557 --> 01:36:08,769 ♪ Thought I was the only, only one ♪ 2137 01:36:08,851 --> 01:36:11,313 She said, did I realize that three out of every ten 2138 01:36:11,395 --> 01:36:13,731 teenage suicides or attempted suicides 2139 01:36:13,814 --> 01:36:17,319 were because the child thought that they might be gay? 2140 01:36:17,402 --> 01:36:19,820 And she said, "Just imagine some 16-year-old 2141 01:36:19,904 --> 01:36:21,948 saying to their parents, 'I'm gay.' 2142 01:36:22,032 --> 01:36:24,659 By the way, your favorite artist is also gay." 2143 01:36:24,743 --> 01:36:27,412 So, I waited until "Breaking Silence". 2144 01:36:27,496 --> 01:36:30,707 ♪ Breaking silence ♪ 2145 01:36:30,791 --> 01:36:33,918 - [Reed] The idea that here was a major songwriter saying 2146 01:36:34,002 --> 01:36:35,753 "I'm going to break the silence", 2147 01:36:35,837 --> 01:36:37,130 I thought that was very powerful. 2148 01:36:37,213 --> 01:36:38,715 - [Howard Stern] Listen. This is a story about 2149 01:36:38,798 --> 01:36:39,675 how you felt at 17. 2150 01:36:39,757 --> 01:36:41,635 You couldn't get guys, true? - [Janis] Right. 2151 01:36:41,717 --> 01:36:43,302 - [Stern] You were not.... - [Janis] Couldn't get girls. 2152 01:36:43,386 --> 01:36:44,179 - [Stern] Couldn't get girls or guys. 2153 01:36:44,262 --> 01:36:45,346 You couldn't talk about the fact that you were a lesbian, 2154 01:36:45,430 --> 01:36:46,849 or else you would've been the outcast of the school. 2155 01:36:46,931 --> 01:36:48,432 - [Janis] Oh, definitely. I think I would've been dead. 2156 01:36:48,516 --> 01:36:49,935 - [Stern] You were having lesbian feelings? 2157 01:36:50,018 --> 01:36:50,769 - [Janis] Yeah. 2158 01:36:50,853 --> 01:36:52,479 - [Janis] I went ahead and did Entertainment Weekly 2159 01:36:52,563 --> 01:36:53,521 and did Leno 2160 01:36:53,604 --> 01:36:57,067 and did all of the various shows and said, "I am gay." 2161 01:36:57,149 --> 01:36:58,443 - [Stern] I wanna explore sexuality next. 2162 01:36:58,527 --> 01:36:59,944 - [Janis] Not a problem. - [Stern] With Janis Ian. 2163 01:37:00,028 --> 01:37:02,322 She has a brand new CD out. 2164 01:37:02,405 --> 01:37:04,115 - [Kathy Mattea] It was not cool to be out of the closet, 2165 01:37:04,198 --> 01:37:05,449 in those years 2166 01:37:05,533 --> 01:37:07,159 - [Jon Vezner] I'm not saying she was ostracized, 2167 01:37:07,243 --> 01:37:09,412 but it definitely affected her. 2168 01:37:09,496 --> 01:37:11,832 - [Janis] I remember living with Pat in Nashville, 2169 01:37:11,914 --> 01:37:13,792 afraid to put my arm around her in the movie theater, 2170 01:37:13,876 --> 01:37:16,002 afraid to hold hands walking on the street. 2171 01:37:16,086 --> 01:37:18,505 All of those things where you go, "I won't be afraid" 2172 01:37:18,588 --> 01:37:20,131 and you go ahead and do it, 2173 01:37:20,215 --> 01:37:22,926 because you're not gonna let the world do that to you. 2174 01:37:23,010 --> 01:37:24,344 Then you get a Matthew Shepard, 2175 01:37:24,427 --> 01:37:28,472 and you realize how tenuous your position is. 2176 01:37:28,556 --> 01:37:30,559 - [Reporter] Some say what happened at this fence post 2177 01:37:30,641 --> 01:37:33,353 in the cold and barren foothills of the Rockies 2178 01:37:33,436 --> 01:37:34,854 was a hate crime. 2179 01:37:34,938 --> 01:37:37,690 Others try to pass it off as just a robbery. 2180 01:37:37,774 --> 01:37:39,693 The one thing that's clear is that what happened 2181 01:37:39,775 --> 01:37:42,779 to Matthew Shepard was horribly brutal. 2182 01:37:42,863 --> 01:37:45,198 - [Janis] Matthew Shepard met a couple of guys in a bar 2183 01:37:45,282 --> 01:37:48,702 who offered him a lift and then proceeded to hang him 2184 01:37:48,784 --> 01:37:52,788 from a barbed wire fence and beat him until he was dead, 2185 01:37:52,872 --> 01:37:54,207 because he was gay. 2186 01:37:54,291 --> 01:37:57,211 When that happened, every gay person in the world flinched. 2187 01:37:57,293 --> 01:37:58,795 (Janis Ian, "Matthew") 2188 01:37:58,878 --> 01:38:03,884 ♪ Footsteps on gravel at the neighborhood bar ♪ 2189 01:38:04,676 --> 01:38:09,680 ♪ Things start to unravel, then they go too far ♪ 2190 01:38:12,518 --> 01:38:15,354 ♪ The sound of pain ♪ 2191 01:38:15,436 --> 01:38:19,774 ♪ Written on the wind ♪ 2192 01:38:19,858 --> 01:38:22,778 ♪ Fades to gray ♪ 2193 01:38:22,860 --> 01:38:25,738 ♪ And then goes dim ♪ 2194 01:38:25,822 --> 01:38:27,365 - [Janis] As a Jew, I was raised to believe 2195 01:38:27,448 --> 01:38:29,952 that if I didn't stand up for the rights of others, 2196 01:38:30,034 --> 01:38:32,162 there would be nobody to stand up for my rights, 2197 01:38:32,246 --> 01:38:34,247 when they came for me. 2198 01:38:34,331 --> 01:38:36,625 And I think that's true of a gay person, too. 2199 01:38:36,707 --> 01:38:38,627 - [James Reed] She turned this horrific moment 2200 01:38:38,710 --> 01:38:40,295 into a very pointed 2201 01:38:40,378 --> 01:38:43,422 and very poignant commentary on 2202 01:38:43,506 --> 01:38:45,466 what does it mean to be a man. 2203 01:38:45,551 --> 01:38:50,555 ♪ What makes a man a man ♪ 2204 01:38:52,850 --> 01:38:55,769 ♪ The cut of a coat ♪ 2205 01:38:55,853 --> 01:38:59,564 ♪ The hint of a tan ♪ 2206 01:38:59,648 --> 01:39:03,359 ♪ It's not who you love ♪ 2207 01:39:03,443 --> 01:39:06,613 ♪ But whether you can ♪ 2208 01:39:08,364 --> 01:39:10,158 - [Janis] "What makes a man a man?" 2209 01:39:10,242 --> 01:39:12,994 I tried to keep that the focus of the song. 2210 01:39:13,078 --> 01:39:17,666 To really just make it a song where the questions are asked. 2211 01:39:17,748 --> 01:39:21,086 - [Reed] It's not who you love, but if you can. 2212 01:39:21,170 --> 01:39:24,756 ♪ That makes a man ♪ 2213 01:39:24,840 --> 01:39:26,841 ♪ A man ♪ 2214 01:39:31,596 --> 01:39:32,764 - [Ann Powers] "Matthew" is on a great album 2215 01:39:32,847 --> 01:39:34,056 called "Billie's Bones" 2216 01:39:34,140 --> 01:39:35,725 that Janis made here in Nashville. 2217 01:39:35,809 --> 01:39:37,185 She also started her own label, 2218 01:39:37,269 --> 01:39:40,771 which is something that a lot of artists today are doing, 2219 01:39:40,855 --> 01:39:42,524 in order to get their music out. 2220 01:39:42,608 --> 01:39:44,484 - [Reed] Another way that Janis Ian really 2221 01:39:44,568 --> 01:39:46,819 spoke to LGBTQ listeners 2222 01:39:46,904 --> 01:39:48,905 was through this column that she had 2223 01:39:48,988 --> 01:39:50,573 for the Advocate magazine. 2224 01:39:50,657 --> 01:39:53,743 And it was the first time I realized how funny she was. 2225 01:39:53,827 --> 01:39:55,537 Later, I would discover through songs 2226 01:39:55,621 --> 01:39:58,289 like "Married in London" that she has a very wicked 2227 01:39:58,372 --> 01:40:00,125 sense of humor, a very barbed sense of humor. 2228 01:40:00,208 --> 01:40:01,585 (Janis Ian, "Married in London") 2229 01:40:01,667 --> 01:40:04,337 ♪ We're married in London but not in New York ♪ 2230 01:40:04,421 --> 01:40:07,882 (audience laughs) 2231 01:40:07,966 --> 01:40:12,179 ♪ Spain says we're Kosher, the States say we're pork ♪ 2232 01:40:12,261 --> 01:40:14,014 (audience laughs) 2233 01:40:14,096 --> 01:40:18,519 ♪ We wed in Toronto, the judge said Amen ♪ 2234 01:40:18,601 --> 01:40:22,314 ♪ And when we got home, we were single again ♪ 2235 01:40:22,396 --> 01:40:25,024 (audience laughs) 2236 01:40:25,108 --> 01:40:26,400 (audience applauds) 2237 01:40:26,484 --> 01:40:27,778 [Janis] I'd been playing in England, 2238 01:40:27,860 --> 01:40:30,488 when the UK made gay marriage legal. 2239 01:40:30,572 --> 01:40:32,865 And then I read on the CNN news scrawl 2240 01:40:32,949 --> 01:40:35,327 that we were about to be legal in Canada. 2241 01:40:35,409 --> 01:40:36,744 So, I texted Pat and I said, 2242 01:40:36,828 --> 01:40:38,412 "Do you wanna get married while I'm there?" 2243 01:40:38,497 --> 01:40:39,622 And she said, "Okay." 2244 01:40:39,706 --> 01:40:44,127 ♪ Thank God I'm not Catholic, I'd be a mess ♪ 2245 01:40:44,211 --> 01:40:48,715 ♪ Trying to figure out what to confess ♪ 2246 01:40:48,798 --> 01:40:50,509 - [Malcolm Sinclair] Janis's entourage showed up, 2247 01:40:50,591 --> 01:40:51,676 wearing Hawaiian shirts 2248 01:40:51,760 --> 01:40:53,470 and enjoying the moment. 2249 01:40:53,554 --> 01:40:55,346 Janis and Pat walked through the door, 2250 01:40:55,430 --> 01:40:57,515 and I suddenly thought to myself, 2251 01:40:57,599 --> 01:41:00,269 "Holy smokes, I've got Janis Ian, 2252 01:41:00,351 --> 01:41:03,855 (chuckles) 'At Seventeen', standing right in front of me." 2253 01:41:03,939 --> 01:41:05,899 - [Janis] We had a New York Times photographer, because Pat, 2254 01:41:05,983 --> 01:41:08,734 who refuses to take photos, or be in the press, said, 2255 01:41:08,819 --> 01:41:10,112 "I want to be a gay couple 2256 01:41:10,194 --> 01:41:11,947 in the New York Times marriage section." 2257 01:41:12,029 --> 01:41:13,823 - [Colin Campbell] This was going to be the first same-sex 2258 01:41:13,907 --> 01:41:17,077 Sunday Wedding Vows column the New York Times had ever done. 2259 01:41:17,159 --> 01:41:19,746 I remember really well, George R.R. Martin was 2260 01:41:19,829 --> 01:41:21,873 one of their best men. 2261 01:41:21,957 --> 01:41:23,958 - [Janis] The idea of getting married as a gay person 2262 01:41:24,042 --> 01:41:25,918 was so foreign. 2263 01:41:26,002 --> 01:41:27,796 We kept thinking that it wasn't going to mean that much. 2264 01:41:27,880 --> 01:41:29,463 Everything was going to be the same. 2265 01:41:29,547 --> 01:41:31,966 We were really shocked when we both started weeping, 2266 01:41:32,050 --> 01:41:33,426 after the ceremony. 2267 01:41:33,510 --> 01:41:38,515 ♪ But love has no colors and hearts have no sex ♪ 2268 01:41:39,390 --> 01:41:44,313 ♪ So, love where you can and fuck all the rest ♪ 2269 01:41:44,395 --> 01:41:48,317 (audience cheers and applauds) 2270 01:41:50,985 --> 01:41:52,863 - [Reed] Her legacy is not just as a songwriter, 2271 01:41:52,945 --> 01:41:54,698 but as an LGBTQ icon. 2272 01:41:58,034 --> 01:42:00,578 - I had been keeping a whiteboard of new songs 2273 01:42:00,662 --> 01:42:02,788 for five or six years, 2274 01:42:02,872 --> 01:42:05,458 and each time I wrote a song that I felt was 2275 01:42:05,542 --> 01:42:06,918 the best I would ever be able to do, 2276 01:42:07,002 --> 01:42:08,628 I would put it up on the white board. 2277 01:42:08,712 --> 01:42:10,380 Songs fell off, songs went on, and I thought, 2278 01:42:10,463 --> 01:42:13,007 "Someday, if I have 11 songs that I think are impeccable, 2279 01:42:13,091 --> 01:42:14,676 I'll make a record." 2280 01:42:14,760 --> 01:42:16,220 And then in the middle of COVID, 2281 01:42:16,302 --> 01:42:18,471 I looked up and there were 11 songs. 2282 01:42:18,555 --> 01:42:20,349 But there were no studios open. 2283 01:42:20,431 --> 01:42:23,851 I recorded at friends' houses, into their tape recorders. 2284 01:42:23,935 --> 01:42:25,729 And I wrote the title song, 2285 01:42:25,811 --> 01:42:28,439 two weeks before we went to mastering. 2286 01:42:28,524 --> 01:42:31,359 I'm gonna sing a few songs from my new album, 2287 01:42:31,443 --> 01:42:32,819 titled appropriately enough, 2288 01:42:32,903 --> 01:42:34,488 "The Light at the End of the Line". 2289 01:42:34,570 --> 01:42:36,948 I'm gonna have a good time. I hope you do, too. 2290 01:42:37,032 --> 01:42:40,953 (gentle acoustic guitar music) 2291 01:42:43,747 --> 01:42:45,373 - [Debra Hyslop] The Light at the End of the Line tour 2292 01:42:45,457 --> 01:42:47,583 is Janis's farewell tour. 2293 01:42:47,667 --> 01:42:50,546 She really wanted to spend time with her fans, 2294 01:42:50,628 --> 01:42:52,005 and to thank her fans. 2295 01:42:52,088 --> 01:42:53,881 - [Janis] I have people who have followed me 2296 01:42:53,966 --> 01:42:54,716 and supported me 2297 01:42:54,800 --> 01:42:59,262 since I was 14, 15 years old. That's an incredible honor. 2298 01:43:00,137 --> 01:43:01,765 (Janis Ian, "The Light at the End of the Line") 2299 01:43:01,849 --> 01:43:04,393 ♪ You were there when I laughed ♪ 2300 01:43:04,475 --> 01:43:09,480 ♪ You were there when I cried ♪ 2301 01:43:10,148 --> 01:43:14,610 ♪ You were there as I tell you goodbye ♪ 2302 01:43:15,737 --> 01:43:17,405 - [Mattea] I got an email from Janis 2303 01:43:17,488 --> 01:43:20,449 a few weeks ago and she said, 2304 01:43:20,533 --> 01:43:22,493 "I just wanted to share something with you. 2305 01:43:22,578 --> 01:43:25,247 Do you have a good doctor? 'Cause I'm having some trouble." 2306 01:43:27,748 --> 01:43:30,711 - [Janis] I got laryngitis and I thought it was laryngitis. 2307 01:43:30,793 --> 01:43:33,588 I was gonna rest for a couple of days, and then one night, 2308 01:43:33,671 --> 01:43:37,384 I woke up and there was a knife in my throat. 2309 01:43:37,466 --> 01:43:39,886 It felt like somebody had just thrown some knives in it. 2310 01:43:39,970 --> 01:43:42,514 And I thought, "Okay, this is part of the laryngitis." 2311 01:43:42,597 --> 01:43:46,100 I got up, I took a couple of Tylenol, I went to bed. 2312 01:43:46,185 --> 01:43:47,144 My voice didn't come back. 2313 01:43:47,226 --> 01:43:48,395 Didn't come back, didn't come back. 2314 01:43:48,478 --> 01:43:50,314 I went to a local doctor. 2315 01:43:50,396 --> 01:43:54,484 Finally, in real desperation, I called Joan Baez. 2316 01:43:55,652 --> 01:43:58,404 Her otolaryngologist recommended someone in Tampa, 2317 01:43:58,488 --> 01:44:01,908 about an hour from where I live and she took film 2318 01:44:01,992 --> 01:44:04,786 of me singing and she said immediately, 2319 01:44:04,869 --> 01:44:05,953 "You've got vocal scarring. 2320 01:44:06,037 --> 01:44:09,832 You've got scarring on your right vocal cord." 2321 01:44:09,917 --> 01:44:13,503 So, that Monday, I saw the speech pathologist, 2322 01:44:13,587 --> 01:44:14,962 and I asked her outright, I said, 2323 01:44:15,046 --> 01:44:16,631 "Am I ever gonna sound like myself again?" 2324 01:44:16,715 --> 01:44:18,675 And she said, "No." 2325 01:44:18,759 --> 01:44:22,720 - [Hyslop] It's hard to actually describe it. 2326 01:44:23,596 --> 01:44:25,515 Tours get canceled. I get that. 2327 01:44:25,599 --> 01:44:30,354 But for it to be someone at the end of her touring career 2328 01:44:32,730 --> 01:44:36,944 and not being able to have any kind of resolution 2329 01:44:37,027 --> 01:44:38,779 is a little shocking. 2330 01:44:40,029 --> 01:44:43,699 - [Janis] I can't hold my notes. I can't stay in tune. 2331 01:44:43,783 --> 01:44:47,246 I'm just flailing, 'cause I don't know where to put it. 2332 01:44:47,328 --> 01:44:49,914 I know intellectually that there is nowhere to put it. 2333 01:44:49,997 --> 01:44:50,707 I know that. 2334 01:44:50,791 --> 01:44:54,336 I know that this is just a cataclysmic event in my life. 2335 01:44:54,418 --> 01:44:55,712 That to anybody else sounds like, 2336 01:44:55,796 --> 01:44:58,715 "Oh, you can't sing anymore, well, you can still talk. 2337 01:44:58,798 --> 01:45:00,341 You can still write. You can still play." 2338 01:45:00,425 --> 01:45:03,011 Yeah, I could still do all of those things, 2339 01:45:03,095 --> 01:45:05,596 but I can't sing and I've sung 2340 01:45:06,765 --> 01:45:08,516 since I was two-and-a-half, three-years-old 2341 01:45:08,600 --> 01:45:11,478 with my dad, at Workman's Circle meetings, 2342 01:45:11,561 --> 01:45:14,730 sitting on Pete Seeger's knee, I've always sung. 2343 01:45:14,814 --> 01:45:17,275 (gentle acoustic guitar music) 2344 01:45:18,609 --> 01:45:20,863 (Janis Ian, "Tea and Sympathy") 2345 01:45:20,945 --> 01:45:25,951 ♪ I don't want to ride the milk train anymore ♪ 2346 01:45:28,369 --> 01:45:31,832 ♪ I'll go to bed at nine ♪ 2347 01:45:31,914 --> 01:45:36,252 ♪ And waken with the dawn ♪ 2348 01:45:36,336 --> 01:45:40,716 ♪ And lunch at half past noon ♪ 2349 01:45:40,798 --> 01:45:45,136 ♪ Dinner prompt at five ♪ 2350 01:45:45,220 --> 01:45:50,225 ♪ The comfort of a few old friends long past their prime ♪ 2351 01:45:52,519 --> 01:45:55,814 ♪ Pass the tea and sympathy ♪ 2352 01:45:55,898 --> 01:46:00,152 ♪ For the good old days long gone ♪ 2353 01:46:00,234 --> 01:46:03,822 ♪ Let's drink a toast to those who most ♪ 2354 01:46:03,905 --> 01:46:07,658 ♪ Believe in what they've won ♪ 2355 01:46:07,743 --> 01:46:12,038 ♪ It's a long, long time till morning ♪ 2356 01:46:12,122 --> 01:46:17,127 ♪ Plays wasted on the dawn ♪ 2357 01:46:17,793 --> 01:46:22,798 ♪ I'll not write another line ♪ 2358 01:46:23,257 --> 01:46:26,845 ♪ For my true love is gone ♪ 2359 01:46:38,814 --> 01:46:41,400 Look at this guitar. It's amazing. 2360 01:46:41,484 --> 01:46:43,529 This guitar is amazing. 2361 01:46:43,612 --> 01:46:45,822 This guitar is older than I am. 2362 01:46:45,905 --> 01:46:48,492 This guitar is just stunning. Look at that. 2363 01:46:48,574 --> 01:46:50,577 Look at this. Look at all of this. 2364 01:46:50,661 --> 01:46:53,538 I was playing it and I was just crying and my wife said, 2365 01:46:53,622 --> 01:46:54,747 "Why is it all pitted there?" 2366 01:46:54,831 --> 01:46:56,291 And I said, "Well, that's how I learned to play." 2367 01:46:56,375 --> 01:46:59,837 And she said "I thought you learned to play on the strings?" 2368 01:46:59,920 --> 01:47:01,380 And I said, "Well, that's what happens when you're learning 2369 01:47:01,462 --> 01:47:05,132 to play with a pick and your pick keeps falling onto it, 2370 01:47:05,216 --> 01:47:06,885 and smacking it." 2371 01:47:06,969 --> 01:47:09,220 My wife, who had worked in the Vanderbilt Archives, 2372 01:47:09,304 --> 01:47:10,721 forced me to start keeping things. 2373 01:47:10,805 --> 01:47:12,015 I used to just throw everything away, 2374 01:47:12,099 --> 01:47:13,850 and Pat was just horrified. 2375 01:47:13,934 --> 01:47:15,519 I started keeping them and I looked up one day 2376 01:47:15,601 --> 01:47:17,104 and I had 200 boxes. 2377 01:47:17,186 --> 01:47:19,439 (acoustic guitar strums) 2378 01:47:19,523 --> 01:47:20,774 And it's just... 2379 01:47:20,858 --> 01:47:25,153 It's almost like playing a bongo, or a conga. 2380 01:47:25,237 --> 01:47:28,990 You know how you go, like that, on those? 2381 01:47:29,073 --> 01:47:31,618 I never went to school. I left in 10th grade. 2382 01:47:31,702 --> 01:47:34,829 So, I didn't have an alma mater to leave my archives to. 2383 01:47:34,912 --> 01:47:37,164 So, I was having lunch with Teresa Kash Davis, 2384 01:47:37,248 --> 01:47:39,626 who works with Berea and I love Berea, 2385 01:47:39,710 --> 01:47:42,462 because every student attends tuition-free. 2386 01:47:42,546 --> 01:47:43,921 So, just put this finger back there. 2387 01:47:44,006 --> 01:47:46,132 Like me, who started out on a chicken farm, 2388 01:47:46,216 --> 01:47:48,510 a lot of students come from rural areas. 2389 01:47:48,594 --> 01:47:50,470 Like my dad, they are the first people 2390 01:47:50,554 --> 01:47:52,471 to attend college in their families. 2391 01:47:52,555 --> 01:47:55,350 They're in college because this is a stepping stone 2392 01:47:55,434 --> 01:47:56,726 to a better future. 2393 01:47:56,810 --> 01:47:58,228 There you are! 2394 01:47:58,311 --> 01:48:00,855 So, I was talking to Teresa, and I started thinking about it 2395 01:48:00,939 --> 01:48:02,983 and I said, "Look, why don't I just donate 2396 01:48:03,065 --> 01:48:04,818 my archives to Berea?" 2397 01:48:04,902 --> 01:48:09,280 And what I wanted them to do was to communicate a life, 2398 01:48:09,363 --> 01:48:12,743 not my life, but the life of the times I lived in. 2399 01:48:12,826 --> 01:48:15,746 (Janis Ian, "Still Standing") 2400 01:48:18,497 --> 01:48:21,292 ♪ See these lines on my face ♪ 2401 01:48:21,376 --> 01:48:23,962 ♪ They're a map of where I've been ♪ 2402 01:48:24,046 --> 01:48:25,130 - [Mattea] A lot of us that have been doing 2403 01:48:25,213 --> 01:48:26,006 this for a long time, 2404 01:48:26,088 --> 01:48:28,216 we're afraid that we won't know who we are, 2405 01:48:28,300 --> 01:48:29,551 when we're not doing it. 2406 01:48:29,635 --> 01:48:31,261 - [Peter Cunningham] We get knocked off our pedestals, 2407 01:48:31,345 --> 01:48:33,971 but Janis has the ability to be resilient. 2408 01:48:34,055 --> 01:48:36,850 - [Robert Oermann] She's got an inner fiber of steel. 2409 01:48:36,934 --> 01:48:38,268 She will always be a writer. 2410 01:48:38,351 --> 01:48:41,979 ♪ And I could not trade a line ♪ 2411 01:48:42,064 --> 01:48:44,565 ♪ Make it smooth and fine ♪ 2412 01:48:44,649 --> 01:48:49,320 ♪ Or pretend that time stands still ♪ 2413 01:48:49,404 --> 01:48:52,282 ♪ I want to rest my soul ♪ 2414 01:48:52,365 --> 01:48:56,869 ♪ Here where it can grow without fear ♪ 2415 01:48:56,953 --> 01:49:01,416 ♪ Another line, another year ♪ 2416 01:49:01,500 --> 01:49:05,002 ♪ I'm still standing here ♪ 2417 01:49:06,212 --> 01:49:07,797 - [Guthrie] Janis's music will be 2418 01:49:07,881 --> 01:49:09,298 around for a very long time, 2419 01:49:09,382 --> 01:49:13,554 because there's a creativity there, there's a power there. 2420 01:49:13,636 --> 01:49:15,805 - [Baez] This meaningful little woman 2421 01:49:15,889 --> 01:49:17,765 wrote giant works of art. 2422 01:49:17,850 --> 01:49:20,769 She's true to her music and true to herself. 2423 01:49:20,853 --> 01:49:23,604 ♪ I'm still standing here ♪ 2424 01:49:23,689 --> 01:49:26,440 ♪ I'm still standing here ♪ 2425 01:49:26,524 --> 01:49:29,319 ♪ I'm still standing here ♪ 2426 01:49:29,403 --> 01:49:32,154 ♪ I'm still standing here ♪ 2427 01:49:32,238 --> 01:49:35,742 ♪ I'm still standing here ♪ 2428 01:49:39,371 --> 01:49:43,292 (audience cheers and applauds) 2429 01:49:48,755 --> 01:49:52,634 (audience cheers and applauds)